Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[RedKing]

I wouldn't say it's equally borked, but I get what you're driving at. Gender stereotyping creates undue pressures on men as well. But frankly, the negative outcomes created by that typically pale in comparison to those for women. It's a bit like complaining about the "white man's burden".

[Lysabild]

I wouldn't say it's equally borked, but I get what you're driving at. Gender stereotyping creates undue pressures on men as well. But frankly, the negative outcomes created by that typically pale in comparison to those for women. It's a bit like complaining about the "white man's burden".

I don't see how, maybe because I live where I do, but I find women quite willing to use their by average stronger psyche against men.

[Vector]

I'd really like it if people would stop assuming that I'm arguing from a point of misandry.

Traditionally, men were expected to pay for women because women were incapable of paying for themselves.  That situation does not exist in a theoretically equal video game.  There is no logical reason why that social structure should bleed over to MMOs or cyberspace in general.  But it does.

I'm sure everyone knows this story for now, but when I first came here I pretended to be a man for a year or so because I didn't want anyone to say my popularity or skill in mafia existed only because people play nice for girls.  I have, of course, had people in real life say that I would get into graduate school because I'm female.  Not because I'm deserving.

And as far as real life goes, don't you already know the answer to your questions?  I have said over and over again that I am working for equality.


Of course I know that men can be beaten by their wives.  Wow, it's not like I actually went and studied this stuff.  I also know that men can be raped by women, or by men, or by whoever.  And so on, and so forth.  But fundamentally, I find it necessary to say that I agree with this:

I wouldn't say it's equally borked, but I get what you're driving at. Gender stereotyping creates undue pressures on men as well. But frankly, the negative outcomes created by that typically pale in comparison to those for women. It's a bit like complaining about the "white man's burden".

Because I'm too exhausted to sit down and make a full explanation of why.

[Lysabild]

Well, maybe it's where I lived and were raised, but I don't agree at all. I was even fired on my first job for not being a woman.

[Vector]

Well, maybe it's where I lived and were raised, but I don't agree at all. I was even fired on my first job for not being a woman.

. . . Unless you were working in child care, nursing, or a position where the person in question is often expected to serve as a sexual attendant (secretary, etc.), I am downright shocked.

Damn.

[Lysabild]

Well, maybe it's where I lived and were raised, but I don't agree at all. I was even fired on my first job for not being a woman.

. . . Unless you were working in child care, nursing, or a position where the person in question is often expected to serve as a sexual attendant (secretary, etc.), I am downright shocked.

Damn.

I was working in a supermarket, the person by the place you pay (My english vocabulary doesn't really cover this)

I didn't get any breaks, the women did, I worked overtime, not getting paid, the women did, one day a woman who had worked there a longer time and was more experience made a mistake that covered me too, I got the warning, not her, I was told to quit my job or be fired, so I quit.

[Nadaka]

Lysabild: You do live in a progressive European country though, things are going to be at least a little more equal.

The US has a lot of mild sexism everywhere, with more serious issues in conservative communities and a few places approach Taliban levels of female suppression.

pseudo edit: On your job, a single instance of injustice does not contradict more general trends in society as a whole.

[Lysabild]

My job was also just a personal first experience with discrimination as a working guy, if I ask around with friends and gather more of my own experiences I could make you all quite a read through.

[Grimshot]

Well, maybe it's where I lived and were raised, but I don't agree at all. I was even fired on my first job for not being a woman.

. . . Unless you were working in child care, nursing, or a position where the person in question is often expected to serve as a sexual attendant (secretary, etc.), I am downright shocked.

Damn.

I was working in a supermarket, the person by the place you pay (My english vocabulary doesn't really cover this)

I didn't get any breaks, the women did, I worked overtime, not getting paid, the women did, one day a woman who had worked there a longer time and was more experience made a mistake that covered me too, I got the warning, not her, I was told to quit my job or be fired, so I quit.

 I believe cashier was the word you were looking for.

[Nadaka]

This entirely off topic post was brought to you by the English language, where we borrow all our words from a random other language.

Cashier is the person accepting payment.
Register is the device used to accept payment.
Checkout is the location the register and cashier do their work.

There are other words that mean the same things and these are occasionally used in the place of the other in common usage.

And the word you were looking for earlier:

Convalescence home or retirement home is where old and disabled people are taken care of.

[Andir]

I hate the statement "white man's burden" btw... the way it sounds to me is as if we are just whining and are not being treated unfairly at all.


As far as sex equality... I think a great part of it is how you are raised, but it roughly equates itself to the separate but equal issue blacks had in the civil rights "war" of the past.  To get a truly equal society we're going to have to cast off what makes men Men and what makes women Women.  You're going to expect women to be able to lift the same weights for whatever job is required and we're going to have to let the male spend some time at home with the newborn, just like mom.  You'd have to get rid of male/female sports (which will not be pretty) and break down MANY barriers like male cheerleaders.  It might even have to be acceptable for men to wear clothing not labeled a kilt which I'm not sure I want to see... and I'm not being sexist here.  I just don't want to see that.  We're going to remove the little sign on the door that says "Men" and "Women" or has a little picture of a stick man or a stick man wearing a dress.  (and yes, I did phrase that stick man wearing a dress sentence like that on purpose.)

The problem is that most women I know of would not want to share restrooms with men.  They have a hard enough time dealing with their husband at home on where the toilet seat is positioned (another job for the male) to the "splash factor" and they are comfortable with their "gently cared for" restrooms.  There are things that each sex excels at doing and not doing.  We are bread for that and have been for thousands of years.  For that stuff to go away overnight is not only improbable, but it's likely impossible.  Male bodies can take quite a bit more beating in sports.  Not due to social pressures, but actual make up.  Bone structure, muscle, etc.  I know women can build up their bodies (one of my friends regularly attends and photographs female body builders... not my cup of tea, but he seems to enjoy it) but there are limits that have to be imposed and those limits tend to pigeon hole women into tasks that feel demeaning.  But one thing a male is likely not going to see anytime soon is child bearing.  We have to have some distinction between sexes as you are aware.  But that line today is so gray...  I have no problem cooking, cleaning and all that stuff around the house.  I live alone and even if I didn't... I'd still do it if it was needed.  But on the flip side I'd expect the wife to change her oil, rotate the tires, and whatever else needs done.  If she doesn't want to do that, then I don't want to hear complaints when I don't use those same oil covered hands to fold towels.

There's a balance with everything in life.  Some things we need to do and others we choose on our own.  People think that the balance is weighed unevenly and I'm curious if those people are actively doing anything to change that or if they are waiting for someone else to go first.

Convalescence home or retirement home is where old and disabled people are taken care of.

Sometimes: Nursing Home.

As far as "Taliban level discrimination" I don't doubt there is some... but I would not state that it's a major factor.  Not anymore.

[Lysabild]

I believe cashier was the word you were looking for.

Like this.


Also, just as I read through again.

. . . Unless you were working in child care, nursing, or a position where the person in question is often expected to serve as a sexual attendant (secretary, etc.), I am downright shocked.

Please justify this, I did work with this, and did so well, the kids loved me and I worked well with the male workers, while most of the older female workers spent their time playing hen house discussing(In quite unpleasant ways) my food, hair and clothes.

[RedKing]

I wouldn't say it's equally borked, but I get what you're driving at. Gender stereotyping creates undue pressures on men as well. But frankly, the negative outcomes created by that typically pale in comparison to those for women. It's a bit like complaining about the "white man's burden".

I don't see how, maybe because I live where I do, but I find women quite willing to use their by average stronger psyche against men.

So they recognized their effective means of leverage in an unequal situation. The same way that if I was in a fight with a guy who outweighed me by 100 lbs, I'm going to use any advantage I can think of. Might not be "fair" or "manly" to kick him in the balls, but if push comes to shove, he's getting Roshambo'd like a boss.

[Leafsnail]

I hate the statement "white man's burden" btw... the way it sounds to me is as if we are just whining and are not being treated unfairly at all.

It's not "whining".  "White man's burden" is supposed to be the obligation of the superior white man to teach all the coloured savages how to be good, decent, godfearing people.  It's the burden of being so much better you're obliged to help other people get slightly up towards your level.

Yeah, it's a racist term.  I wouldn't use it.

Please justify this, I did work with this, and did so well, the kids loved me and I worked well with the male workers, while most of the older female workers spent their time playing hen house discussing(In quite unpleasant ways) my food, hair and clothes.

I think it's to do with sex offenders and stuff.  Although there have been several cases of female sex offenders so... uh...

[Vector]

@Lysabild: I'm not saying it's right, but it's generally assumed over here that women are better at child care and nursing.  I would expect you to be discriminated against in those situations, just as I would expect women to be discriminated against as construction workers, firewomen, lawyers, professors, soldiers, scientists, etc.  Hence not being especially surprised if a guy was treated unfairly based on his gender.


If you're curious about what I, personally, am doing, Andir:

I'm a female student in math and rhetoric.  Used to be in mechanical engineering.  I can use power tools, design machines, and do basic auto/bicycle repair/maintenance, though I can't actually drive a car yet--felt that I wouldn't be safe on the road.  I can also cook, clean, knit, sew a little, translate both text and speech in five different languages, mediate arguments, nurture and comfort, create a pleasant environment to live in, entertain with singing, violin, piano, pleasant conversation, and flower arrangement, and perform basic first aid.  I know how to use maps of various sorts, or draw them, or find my way home without one.  I can tell time by the sun.  I've helped raise a yurt, build bookshelves, construct trellises, plant gardens, raise crops, and network computers.  I can also program some, and have studied martial arts.

I would assume that's good enough.