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[SalmonGod]

Just curious, Vector.  You've brought up various fetishes a few times.  How far would you go in actually saying that there's something wrong with this?  Won't any arousal be based on qualities that are completely up to personal interpretation?

[Vector]

Just curious, Vector.  You've brought up various fetishes a few times.  How far would you go in actually saying that there's something wrong with this?  Won't any arousal be based on qualities that are completely up to personal interpretation?

What, the white panty thing?

Oh, I'm not trying to say something's wrong with it at all!  I just think it's interesting that that particular fetish overwhelms strongly stated sexual orientation.  It's kind of a derail.

I think some fetishes can be problematic (like an actual rape fetish, one which is not indulged with the consent to engage in a rape fantasy), but otherwise I don't really care.  Of course, I'm talking about fetishes as something one doesn't attempt to press on everyone else to an unduly degree.  Requiring an entire group to conform to one's personal expectations of sexual attraction just seems cruel.

Oh god a book written according to that article would be so full of clichés and bad tropes that My Immortal would pale in comparison. A random, just-like-us protagonist that somehow has special powers, who can only become what she wants through hard work and diligence? I'm just waiting for a big Aesop to drop from the skies (in addition to the one that's staring me in the face that is).

The Color Purple was a pretty good book, really.

[SalmonGod]

What, the white panty thing?

Oh, I'm not trying to say something's wrong with it at all!  I just think it's interesting that that particular fetish overwhelms strongly stated sexual orientation.  It's kind of a derail.

Ok.  I wasn't sure if you were presenting these things as something negative or not.

[Vector]

I still haven't been able to accept my own tendencies towards fetishism, mostly because I've spent so long of my life being adamantly straight-laced and desperately trying to be So Totally Normal.  Now I find out that I seem to have developed all kinds of bizarre attractions, and I don't know what to do about them, really.  Some of them are fetishes about being adamantly straight-laced... I don't even like people like that, personality-wise, I'm just attracted to them =/

So yeah, that's not "official Vector policy/opinion."  That's something I'm trying to work out for myself, and I fear it's tingeing my words more than it should.

EDIT: For a great essay on this, you should read "Thinking Sex" by Gayle Rubin.  It has some extremely controversial parts, but I found most of it fascinating and quite tolerable.

[SalmonGod]

Damn, I wish I had time to read as many books as most of you guys do.

Edit:  Although, I could probably read tons of e-books while at work, if I wasn't spending so much time on this forum  :p

[Vector]

Well, it's 20 pages long or so and easily findable online (probably even through Googlebooks or somesuch), so if you've got time, take a little look =)

[Gunner-Chan]

Really I think it's terrible to try and force yourself to be "Normal"... I fell into that hole and it nearly fucking broke me. It's really better to come to terms with how you feel about things and how you feel about well... Anything.

Everyone has quirks. It's what makes us human.

[Vector]

Yeah, I started learning about that a few years ago--similarly, it basically smashed me like so many tons of bricks.  Just took some time to get past the bigger identity problems, so now I can cook the smaller ones =)

[Gunner-Chan]

I find the smaller ones go good with sour cream. .3c

[blackmagechill]

Really I think it's terrible to try and force yourself to be "Normal"... I fell into that hole and it nearly fucking broke me. It's really better to come to terms with how you feel about things and how you feel about well... Anything.

Everyone has quirks. It's what makes us human.

I know this is stupid, and I'm an extremely shallow person for doing so, or maybe just crazy secretive about my hobbies, but, I feel like I need to act "normal"
(within bounds, I can't really be "normal" in this town as I'm an atheist and have never enunciated the N word) to feel good in social situations. Bay12, DF, all
this lovely online stuff, nobody knows that I do this. And I work really hard to keep it that way by being very secretive about it. I don't know why, it's just a
sort of reaction. Is this bad?(the answer:probably!)

[sonerohi]

I greatly enjoyed this little article on Harry Potter.

Hopefully you will, too.

I don't quite get it. I'm not sure what I'm missing, either, because I'm not sure what it is that I'm not missing. Spark notes, please?

[Vector]

I don't quite get it. I'm not sure what I'm missing, either, because I'm not sure what it is that I'm not missing. Spark notes, please?

It's about a few things.

a. The writer thinks that Hermione is the true heroine of the novels, a strong character who worked her way through trials and tribulations without the usual rigamaro of the "strange birth and enormous amounts of magical powers gifted."  She is an extraordinary character.

b. The writer thinks that J. K. Rowling did the character a great disservice, and hid her behind a male character pumped full of an overwhelming number of boring stereotypes.

c. J. K. Rowling said she did a lot of things that she didn't actually do.  For example, Dumbledore's retconned homosexuality--hide your gays, and all that.

d. The books tend to be rather cruel to their female characters, and value their abilities below those of men.  This doesn't really stop.

e. She takes potshots at youthful activism.

f. etc., etc.

It's... very satirical.  The point is to call JK Rowling out for what amounts to a seemingly sexist, racist, imperialist, etc. work, while still lauding her for having given us Hermione to enjoy in the first place.

[sonerohi]

Ah, got it now. Since you've said JK is sexist, I'd like to ask a question. I'm agreeing with you that there is some heavy lady-hate in Harry Potter, but what are some factors you use to draw the line in other books? All the villains being female, yes, that's sexist, unless all the characters are female. But in other works, where the hate is dished out to every character, how does someone identify whether or not the hate is deserved? Sorry if this seems like kind of a stupid question, but I just really can't.. put weights on reasoning, is I guess what I'm trying to say. Like, I can't tell when Reason A is more valid than Reason B, and just assume it is valid enough for the decision maker.

Editing: I guess more of what I'm asking is, say for instance: The villain gets shot. It is morally justified because the main character did it and the main character is always right. But if they are the villain just because the main character doesn't like them, as a person, is that in any way sexism or just the main character being a right prick?

[Truean]

I still haven't been able to accept my own tendencies towards fetishism, mostly because I've spent so long of my life being adamantly straight-laced and desperately trying to be So Totally Normal.  Now I find out that I seem to have developed all kinds of bizarre attractions, and I don't know what to do about them, really.  Some of them are fetishes about being adamantly straight-laced... I don't even like people like that, personality-wise, I'm just attracted to them =/

So yeah, that's not "official Vector policy/opinion."  That's something I'm trying to work out for myself, and I fear it's tingeing my words more than it should.

EDIT: For a great essay on this, you should read "Thinking Sex" by Gayle Rubin.  It has some extremely controversial parts, but I found most of it fascinating and quite tolerable.

It's cool man, took me w long time to manage that too. Did not help that I kept telling myself I didn't like guys. Meh. once I got over that it helped a little.

Also maybe that's just your "type." I prefer guys who more or less fill the guy role, given that I fill the girl one, if that makes sense.

[Vector]

Just saying--it's very different to say that the work has sexist, etc., themes and call the author whatever.  This is why one usually says the work is "problematic," even, just to say that it furthers and strengthens certain tropes that are hurting people right now.

I dunno, really, if she's sexist or not.  All I'll discuss on this front is her work =)


Usually, you look at who is "good," who is "bad," and if there's any sort of balance in it.  You look for stereotypes on both sides and characters who seem to be shortchanged or disproportionately punished, ridiculed, etc.--and who those sorts of people are.

There's usually an in-universe reason for all this stuff (much like we have the outer-world reason of "girls are stupid" for why we don't have so many women in academia), but you have to look at what you know about the real world's issues, look at what the book is saying about those real people in the book, and see if you think Issues Are Happening.

Does that make sense, Sonerohi, or did you have a different question?