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Author Topic: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread  (Read 876966 times)

Sheb

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #1740 on: July 17, 2011, 02:19:51 pm »

Funnlily enough, there is now  huge outcry in France after a green MP and presidential candidate said she'd like to abolish the 14th of July military parade and change them by "popular parade" of teachers, firemen, children and other harmless civilians.
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Truean

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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
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Mindmaker

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #1742 on: July 18, 2011, 08:35:53 am »

Was the discussion about "alcohol and consent" in here? Or in another thread?
Because something about it has been really bugging me and I'm not sure if it has been adressed.
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Vector

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #1743 on: July 18, 2011, 08:40:03 am »

Was the discussion about "alcohol and consent" in here? Or in another thread?
Because something about it has been really bugging me and I'm not sure if it has been adressed.

I'm not sure if it was here or not, but you should go for it.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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Mindmaker

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #1744 on: July 18, 2011, 08:43:20 am »

Was the discussion about "alcohol and consent" in here? Or in another thread?
Because something about it has been really bugging me and I'm not sure if it has been adressed.
I'm not sure if it was here or not, but you should go for it.
Not posting anything before I find it, since I'm not even sure it was said in the way I remembered it.
I discussed something in a friend yesterday and this made me actually give it some thought.
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Vector

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #1745 on: July 18, 2011, 08:49:48 am »

Well, I mean... let me put it this way.  You can just mention the idea you're talking about, and then present your counterargument.  Then folks will say "Yeah, that sounds right" or "no, that doesn't sound right" and so on.

But I really think it was probably here, because as far as I know this is the most recent site of rape discussions in general.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

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Mindmaker

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #1746 on: July 18, 2011, 09:01:49 am »

Well, I do remember something along the lines of "A womens consent can be invalidated in retrospect, when she was drunk while she gave it. This also is considered rape.".

I won't be making a big deal out of it, only to hear "Dude, nobody's saying that!", afterwards.
If that has been a topic, I'd appreciate if somebody could point me to that discussion or at least tell me what general attitude was.
I'm searching for it right now, but that far unsuccessfully.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 09:04:20 am by Mindmaker »
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Vector

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #1747 on: July 18, 2011, 09:05:38 am »

I think the general idea is that a person who is drunk when they consent cannot consent, much like a person who is a child is considered in a state where they cannot legally consent to sex.

It's not about retroactive removal of consent.  It's about some definitions.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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Mindmaker

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #1748 on: July 18, 2011, 09:07:50 am »

So it's technically rape and sueable?
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Vector

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #1749 on: July 18, 2011, 09:11:58 am »

So it's technically rape and sueable?

Tends to depend on the situation.  In the US, it often seems like anything is sueable.  But this is generally used for situations in which one person gets another person drunk in order to waive their judgment and ability to rationally consent.

Yeah, we know, the law is full of holes =/
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Mindmaker

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #1750 on: July 18, 2011, 09:18:28 am »

Oh, I see. Thank you.

You spared me a rant on equality and a personal anecdote.
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Truean

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #1751 on: July 18, 2011, 01:30:01 pm »

You can rape someone by introduction of an intoxicating substance.

In the U.S. it becomes a question of fact for the jury:
1.) If that person took it knowingly and voluntarily.
2.) The extent to which the person was intoxicated.

People have sex while drunk. It happens; a lot.
At some point, there is no possible way you can give consent because you are too damn drunk or otherwise intoxicated. After a certain level of extreme intoxication, you can't really remember, much less knowingly consent.

Also, you really can't sue over anything in the US. Civil Rule 11 has been there from the start to keep that from happening. People just think you can because they hear shit on the news or other TV programs. In actuality "frivolous lawsuits" aren't that common. They are, however, every single solitary defendant's first BS line of defense. What most people really mean when they say "frivolous lawsuits" is lawsuits that they personally don't agree with. People think they are special and that their approval is required for things to be legit. It isn't.

The Casey Anthony: http://news.yahoo.com/now-free-casey-anthony-avoiding-public-eye-081757315.html

Freaking exhibit A, people in the US are seriously pissed she wasn't found guilty of first degree murder. Fact is this was never murder, though she may have killed her child. It's called manslaughter and there is a difference. The prosecutor screwed up, immensely. The dude purposefully delayed his retirement so he could go out with a bang--a 1st degree murder conviction all over the news. It's called ego.... Some little baby girl died and we are all about to buy and sell it 'cause it's Tragic with a capital T. Some cute little kid died and we want blood....

State statutes vary but at common law, murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Malice Aforethought exists if there are no facts reducing the killing to voluntary manslaughter or excusing it and was committed with one of the following states of mind. 1.) intent to kill, 2.) intent to inflict serious bodily harm, 3.) depraved heart: reckless indifference to an unjustifiable risk to human life, or 4.) felony murder.

First degree murder has aggravating circumstances that vary by state but in Ohio it's killing of a police officer, pregnant woman, child under 13, during a jail sentence or while committing a predetermined list of felony murders.

This was Involuntary Manslaughter. Involuntary Manslaughter: a killing committed with criminal negligence or during the commission of an unlawful act. Here, Ms. Anthony went out partying and did not supervise her child. She negligently allowed the child to die. This is itself an unlawful act and is criminal negligence. None of the factors required for murder and certainly none of the factors for aggravated murder are present. Thus, it was involuntary manslaughter, not murder.

Ms. Anthony was only charged with 1st degree murder. Manslaughter was not an option given to the jury by the prosecutor's indictment. Thus, the Jury made the right decision freeing Ms. Anthony, because exactly as the jury stated, there was not enough evidence to convict her of 1st degree murder.

The prosecutor was totally floored. He mouthed "wow," no less than 5 times while the jury decision was read.
The jury is quoted as saying "We didn't say she didn't do anything wrong; we're saying there wasn't enough evidence."

Overconfident, egotistical prosecutor, public wanting entertainment, and a news media willing to sell them it, all adds up to a miscarriage of justice. Had she been properly charged, I believe Ms. Anthony would be doing about 10 years right about now. This would be a just result.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 01:48:28 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Vector

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #1752 on: July 18, 2011, 06:44:45 pm »

@Truean: Thank you for the clarification!


And now, in things that made you fucking rage today.

RRRRRRAWWWWWWRRRRRRRRAUUUUGH.

I know I may just be performing the stereotypical Freudian "reaction formation," but that's not going to stop me getting pissed at that ad.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Christes

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #1753 on: July 18, 2011, 06:48:46 pm »

And now, in things that made you fucking rage today.

What ... the ... hell?  I did not see where that was going.
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Vector

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #1754 on: July 18, 2011, 06:52:59 pm »

Oh, and by the way, apparently that's being shown in theaters as one of the ads that comes up right before HP7-II.

Yup.

Enjoy your vaginas, little girls!  Pretty soon men are going to be killing themselves over them, and you'd better make them smell "right!"
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".
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