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[Vector]

VECTOR TURNED ME GAY! BURN THE WITCH!

You know, I used to be accused of being a witch when I was a little girl.  I don't know why.  Maybe it was because I didn't dress like the other children.  Maybe it was because I was always socially awkward and kept to myself.  Maybe it was because, when I end up in sensory overload periods, I'll often recite poetry or numerical patterns to help impose some sort of order on my mind.  They thought I was trying to curse them or something like that.  I'll admit that my only friend at the time did lean in that direction, intentionally and knowingly.  Regrettably, that was the only friend I was capable of making.  I didn't have other options.

Of course, no one tried to light me on fire.  They just did things like coming by to harass me, ordering me to strip, pretending to be interested in me in order to see how gullible I was.  Threatened violence, or did treat me violently.  I got punched, stabbed with pencils, and so on.  Naturally, the school system didn't do anything.  I brought it down on myself for being different.


Shitposting is another thing that is not tolerated in this thread.

[Truean]

Yeah, I'm hoping Tyg13 was just being sarcastic....

Vector is one of those really nice women who make great friends to gays I was talking about.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Tyg

    snip


I don't know what to say, but thanks for the advice. I have enough to deal with in my life, to the point where this whole gay factor almost pisses me off. I've got plenty of things that are going against me and making my life difficult, and the last thing I needed was one more thing that set me apart from everyone else. But I'll get older one day, and I'll learn to move on. I guess one of the biggest hurdles in coming out and everything is probably the fact that you can't go back. Things will never be the same, and what absolutely mortifies me is having a conversation with someone I know well and having them treat me like I'm a different person. Like the old me is gone somehow.

Maybe I shouldn't dump my emotional baggage here, so I'll limit this to this one post, but Truean, just... Thanks.

[Nadaka]

I am not at all shocked or surprised, that kind of thing is far more common than you know.

Unfortunately yes. Homosexuals in the US get assaulted, seriously injured and in some cases killed far more often than people think. The fact that it happened to a four year old is a little shocking but yeah.... Matthew Shepard wasn't especially shocking because they tortured and killed him, that was bad enough, but because they pretended to be gay, went to a gay bar, lured him outside and then did it.... Downright predatory.... I mean shit, if you can't be gay in a gay bar then where the crap can you be?

I was actually referring to the pseudo cult, extreme abusive aspect of it. You never really get over it. You either die, commit suicide, fall into another group or shut the fuck up and pretend to be normal because no one can really ever understand what you have been through.

But you are also quite correct. Homosexuals are victimized more frequently than many suspect. Especially if you count those driven to suicide because of how their family, friends and society in general treat them.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

i can relate with bauglirs feelings. before i became the Tom of Finland aficionado that i am now, i was a frightened country boy that would rant and spit out progressive cliques, but so insecure that i wouldn't sit a less than a couple tables away from the local transvestite in a coffee shop. from what i heard, that disgust is something even many homosexuals feel before coming to terms with their sexuality.
i'd say that acknowledging that subconscious homophobia is the first step to get over it. for me, it went away completely once i got to know and became friends with actual homosexuals

[Truean]

i can relate with bauglirs feelings. before i became the Tom of Finland aficionado that i am now, i was a frightened country boy that would rant and spit out progressive cliques, but so insecure that i wouldn't sit a less than a couple tables away from the local transvestite in a coffee shop. from what i heard, that disgust is something even many homosexuals feel before coming to terms with their sexuality.
i'd say that acknowledging that subconscious homophobia is the first step to get over it. for me, it went away completely once i got to know and became friends with actual homosexuals

Basically yeah, it is unfortunately normal for gays to hate themselves because we've been taught that everything we are sucks. The doctors tell you you're sick or crazy, the church tells you you're a sinner, the police tell you you're a criminal. <---- That was the traditional view which is only now seriously starting to change in some places. I will always have issues with who I am from being raised by bigoted screwed up parents who told me gays were all pedophiles. I'd sooner put a gun to my head and pull the trigger than harm a child and I would if I ever felt those messed up thoughts in my head. Thankfully I don't and most gay people don't anymore than straight people.

There's a massive stigma. It's so damn huge that it is everywhere and people don't even realize or mean to support it but they do:

"That's so gay." [Stupid]

I don't care what you think it means or what you intend to say. There is absolutely no arguing that a gay youth hears this and makes the connection that if gay is stupid then he is....

Straight guys make great friends if they get that you aren't going to hit on them and they are cool with it.... This is useful for the straight guy to know because that hot girl you like, may very well have a gay best friend.... We have our uses.

[SalmonGod]

I'm curious.

Bauglir/Askot/anyone who admits (in a non-condemning fashion) that they find homosexuality to be gross, what exactly is it that you're referring to? 

Is it the thought of other people being attracted to their own gender?  Is it the mental image of that sexuality in action?  Or is it imagining yourself in that position?

I mean... I'm straight.  If I imagine myself engaging in some form of sexuality with another man, it bothers me.  But that's only if I put myself in that scenario.  Other people... never bothered me.  At all.  That's them.  I'm me.  I've responded playfully to gay guys flirting with me.  Didn't bother me.  I've seen gay porn.  No appeal, but no revulsion, either.  But I've always been very comfortable with my own orientation.

So I've always personally thought of homophobia as an insecurity (and defense mechanism) born from the thought of being unsure of one's potential to possibly be or become something that one finds unappealing.  I've never understood how else being grossed out by something could transform into hatred or avoidance.  Am I getting this wrong?

[Tyg13]

No, I was kidding. Vector seems like a nice person to me, and I wouldn't call her a witch in any way except in a joking light. Also, sheesh guys, you can't turn someone gay. It's not like we can just wave our magic wand and poof turn you into one of us. (or can we?)

[freeformschooler]

Is it the mental image of that sexuality in action?  Or is it imagining yourself in that position?

It's a combination of these two for me. I can't imagine myself kissing or getting it on with another man. It just grosses me out at a level I can't explain away. It's just there.

I think for a lot of people it seeps out over and turns into something a lot bigger.

[SalmonGod]

Is it the mental image of that sexuality in action?  Or is it imagining yourself in that position?

I can't imagine myself kissing or getting it on with another man. It just grosses me out at a level I can't explain away. It's just there.

And what if it's two people completely separate from yourself without any risk at all of your personal involvement?  Can you imagine witnessing this without any sense of personal relation to the scenario?  Does evoke the same response?

[freeformschooler]

Is it the mental image of that sexuality in action?  Or is it imagining yourself in that position?

I can't imagine myself kissing or getting it on with another man. It just grosses me out at a level I can't explain away. It's just there.

And what if it's two people completely separate from yourself without any risk at all of your personal involvement?  Can you imagine witnessing this without any sense of personal relation to the scenario?  Does evoke the same response?

Not quite, but there's a response. I still get the same grossed out feeling imagining two other guys getting it on or kissing, just not quite as strong. It's something I can't help.

But in the end, it doesn't affect me or anybody else. My best friend and I very different in our tastes in people (gender or otherwise) and our sexualities. He has a hard time imagining getting it on with most girls, and I sympathize with him on that matter, since I'm the same, just the other way around.

[Vector]

Eh.  I'm uncomfortable watching dudes kissing.

I'm also uncomfortable watching displays of affection in general, sexual or not--including parents with children, etc.  I have no idea why, but it's not that I have trouble with the people involved, or with the idea of the act.  Something just makes me turn my face away and make me wish they'd leave.

This is a psychological issue, though, not a viewpoint I really consider positive in the least.

[Virex]

Is it the mental image of that sexuality in action?  Or is it imagining yourself in that position?

I can't imagine myself kissing or getting it on with another man. It just grosses me out at a level I can't explain away. It's just there.

And what if it's two people completely separate from yourself without any risk at all of your personal involvement?  Can you imagine witnessing this without any sense of personal relation to the scenario?  Does evoke the same response?

Not quite, but there's a response. I still get the same grossed out feeling imagining two other guys getting it on or kissing, just not quite as strong. It's something I can't help.

But in the end, it doesn't affect me or anybody else. My best friend and I very different in our tastes in people (gender or otherwise) and our sexualities. He has a hard time imagining getting it on with most girls, and I sympathize with him on that matter, since I'm the same, just the other way around.

It's probably the same reason people squash spiders: The natural instinct to oppose what males you feel uncomfortable, combined with a social stigma that reinforces those feelings. Now, while I'm still feeling a bit giddy about guys being very intimate with each other, living with a what's probably a dozen spiders quickly cured me of any misarachnia I may have had (though I never really thought of them as a problem), so who knows, maybe more exposure would help normalize things.


And to anyonme who takes offence at me comparing gays with spiders: What did spiders ever do to you?

[Fenrir]

And to anyonme who takes offence at me comparing gays with spiders: What did spiders ever do to you?

I do not really care if spiders did anything to me. I shall exterminate their repugnant forms regardless. It is a rather different matter with human beings.

[Virex]

And to anyonme who takes offence at me comparing gays with spiders: What did spiders ever do to you?

I do not really care if spiders did anything to me. I shall exterminate their repugnant forms regardless. It is a rather different matter with human beings.

It's the same idea: It freaks you out and that's enough reason for many people to kill spiders (unless you live in Australia or something, then I guess you might kill them to avoid putting your shoe on with a poisonous spider inside), and for some it's enough reason to "marginalize gays in a rather painful way"

[Truean]

[nods]

[Edit: It's OK Vector, we all have our hang ups].

Yeah see we know it's widespread. Even allowing for that, I find it odd that people would find it weird if I were to all outward appearances a girl and they knew....

Anyhow, I've never quite understood this sort of "bad taste in your mouth" thing against gays and PDA in general. Whenever I see PDA I'm usually like, awww that's cute. Even and especially if its a really ugly couple I'm like "Awww, there's someone for everyone!" ). At least that's what I'm thinking....

I dunno, one time on a date Rob held my hand and walked close with me. He was trying to get me more comfortable with my numerous neurotic things. We sat in a booth in the corner minding our own business, occasionally holding hands (not even kissing) and some guy came up to us and said "Do you mind, my family is here...."

Rob's response, "So is mine...."

Personally I was petrified, the absolute last thing I wanted was trouble and that great feeling where everyone in the whole place is looking right at you. Not sure what to do with that.