Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Vector]

I see that we've managed to find our way into a massive derail again

I don't get "wishing you were bi." Do you have any idea how much more complicated life would be? EVERY SINGLE PERSON you met would be a potential hookup or date or partner. All the touchy dynamics of male-female platonic friendships would be part of EVERY relationship. I think it'd be a headache...

Um, no.  Most people get sorted out very quickly, by virtue of "I don't find them attractive."  The touchy dynamics of male-female platonic friendships basically don't exist for me, because I am a very, very fast weeder most of the time.  If a guy I don't want displays interest in me, I proceed to act more like a dude and hope for the best.

So, for myself, at the very least, it's not much of a headache.  It really doesn't matter that much.


For now, let's have some misogyny, and also some more coverage.

[Truean]

I wonder if there is a Grand Hipster somewhere in the world?

No one can find him, because he just leaves everywhere after exactly 11 minutes and 52 seconds and saying someone is crowding his scene. Naturally, no one has ever been able to observe his alleged scene or if it could conceivably be crowded.

For now, let's have some misogyny, and also some more coverage.

This bastard's secret to a long and healthy marriage is Tupperware. It hurts less when she she throws it at him (with complete justification to do so).

[MetalSlimeHunt]

For now, let's have some misogyny, and also some more coverage.

I find it hard to be angry at this one, even though it's wrong. The guy seems almost remorseful about holding his opinion on the matter.

[Vector]

I find it hard to be angry at this one, even though it's wrong. The guy seems almost remorseful about holding his opinion on the matter.

I don't, but that's mostly because I've heard so very, very many people saying it.

Similarly, the "women aren't allowed to act as ____________ because they're dirty."

[Fenrir]

I do not really see how the man's assertion is misogynistic, as it sounds like a reasonable and plausible speculation to make. I would not be able to say if it were accurate or not, of course, and he probably should not have made that assertion without some statistics to confirm it, but it seems reasonable enough, as I would expect women to take sick leave for such a reason. His apologies only seem to make it more unlikely that he said it because he hates women.

EDIT: Of course, I am left wondering if that would be enough to account for the differences in pay. Anyway, I think that, while he probably did not think about it enough, I would not go so far as to say that the man is a misogynist.

Only the most daring forum dwellers give their opinions on topics with which they have almost no experience, and only the most foolhardy do so where the consequences of failure earn them some distasteful title, like “misogynist”, but only the truly insane do both in the company of such persons as have had much experience with the topic in question. One can but wonder about my present mental health.

[blackmagechill]

I really doubt that many women take sick days for that reason, or at least enough to make a difference.

[Phmcw]

I do not really see how the man's assertion is misogynistic, as it sounds like a reasonable and plausible speculation to make. I would not be able to say if it were accurate or not, of course, and he probably should not have made that assertion without some statistics to confirm it, but it seems reasonable enough, as I would expect women to take sick leave for such a reason. His apologies only seem to make it more unlikely that he said it because he hates women.

EDIT: Of course, I am left wondering if that would be enough to account for the differences in pay. Anyway, I think that, while he probably did not think about it enough, I would not go so far as to say that the man is a misogynist.

Meh, how exactly are we supposed to accept that? Seriously, "women should be payed less because they have period"?
How stupid is that guys to spout that on radio? That's misogynistic because he suggest that women should be payed less, and that's illegal because you can't pay an employee less because of health problem (and that's unjust because period is not a problem for every women).
It's misogynistic because a) it's disrespectful b) it's unjust to the women who doesn't have blood loss problem.

One of the problem with racism and misogyny is that, for some reason, people hadn't learned that statistic doesn't apply to the individual and that we're supposed to treat every individual as equal. If some women are getting faint because of blood-loss and some men tend to have rages issue (kudo for the stereotype btw) doesn't mean that you're entitled to discriminate all of them.

[Zrk2]

Spoiler: Average Hours Worked in Italy per Day be Gender (click to show/hide)

Source: http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/ewco/studies/tn0803046s/it0803049q.htm

Spoiler: Average Income in the UK by Gender (click to show/hide)

Source: http://career-advice.monster.co.uk/salary-benefits/pay-salary-advice/uk-average-salary-graphs/article.aspx

Average Income of Men/Average Hours Worked a Day by Men (2003): $5022/Hour
Average Income of Women/Average Hours Worked a Day by Women (2003): $5514

While these graphs are fomr different nations those nations have similar societies and attitudes to work and the fact that both variables are distorted by the issues renders that inaccuracy invalid.

So while there is an income gap based on gender, so too is there an 'hours worked' gap which accounts for said gap. I thought this brief analysis would be useful.

One of the problem with racism and misogyny is that, for some reason, people hadn't learned that statistic doesn't apply to the individual and that we're supposed to treat every individual as equal.

Fiar, or equal? There is an important difference there.

[Fenrir]

I have too late admitted my folly, but you are wrong about why I am wrong.

Meh, how exactly are we supposed to accept that? Seriously, "women should be payed less because they have period"?

No. Women should be payed less if their medical condition causes them to do less work. The problem is that such may not be true.

One of the problem with racism and misogyny is that, for some reason, people hadn't learned that statistic doesn't apply to the individual and that we're supposed to treat every individual as equal. If some women are getting faint because of blood-loss and some men tend to have rages issue (kudo for the stereotype btw) doesn't mean that you're entitled to discriminate all of them.

Firstly, it would no more be a stereotype than to suppose that women have breasts. Secondly, he is asserting that women make less because women take more sick days, so only women who take more sick days would actually be paid less. This may well not be true, but it would not be wanton discrimination.

Please, I was wrong enough without you contriving something new out of the ether.

[Leafsnail]

So... Zrk2's analysis comprehensibly proves that women who work their hours in Italy and get payed in the UK earn more than men who are also in a state of quantum superposition between the two countries.

(wouldn't it be better to use... y'know, comparable data?  If there's any difference at all in the status of women in Italy and the UK (and I strongly suspect there is) your analysis is completely invalid)

[Zrk2]

I put that together in 5 minutes, simply to demonstrate that there are reasons other than sexism for the pay gap. Later I could go use the Canadian census from 2001 (2005 isn't fully analyzed yet) if you wish.

[Reelyanoob]

Should people be paid the same hourly rate or not? Which is "fair"?

My last girlfriend had quite intense period pain which meant she couldn't work at all, sometimes for several days at a time. She was a waitress on casual hourly rates, should she be paid for shifts she did not attend? That would effectively mean the Cafe couldn't employ her in the first place, as they'd have to pay double pay when she's sick (to cover the extra staff member too)

It's not sexist to say this is a real phenomena. Men get labelled misogynist for pretending it's not happening / not taking it into account, yet also sexist when they acknowledge it does happen.

Ok, from now on we won't acknowledge female reproductive health issues at all. Happy now? The guy in the article said he doesn't ask women why they want days off in detail. So lets have some fair treatment and make them bring in a medical certificate, like they would for a male employee. Males don't get the same "touchy-feely" treatment from supervisors when we say we're sick. We have to get a doctor to write a certificate proving exactly what was wrong with us or we can get sacked.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Meh, how exactly are we supposed to accept that? Seriously, "women should be payed less because they have period"?

No. Women should be payed less if their medical condition causes them to do less work. The problem is that such may not be true.

Even if that is true, it's a medial condition that applies to the vast majority of healthy women and can't be controlled, and so they should be given equal pay anyway. I think that is what would be fair, anyway.

[Phmcw]

 Secondly, he is asserting that women make less because women take more sick days,

Hu? Aren't sick days paid in America? In Belgium they are, if slightly less than regular days.

[blackmagechill]

 Secondly, he is asserting that women make less because women take more sick days,

Hu? Aren't sick days paid in America? In Belgium they are, if slightly less than regular days.

I don't think so, unless you have some sweet benefits. I don't necessarily agree with pay on sick days though. If I haven't really done any work, why should I get payed?
EDIT: I should mention that sick days on prevailing wage (i.e. hourly) are not payed (probably) but salary pay has paid sick days. I think.