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[KaelGotDwarves]

On undocumented immigration - on one of the occasions that I found myself in a soul-crushing job for a major electronics retail company which shall not be named, working Loss Prevention/Internal Affairs as a minor manager within the store studying everything that happened within the store...

I was basically told by higher level management to look the other way when our janitors did not have US citizenship, green cards, work visas, and gave us Mexican State IDs as we checked them in. They were also paid below minimum wage.

I was somewhat amused. They were nice chaps.

[Truean]

Article on gender equality of many flavors.

Story on undocumented immigration.

On the trans things:
I live in one of those areas where it is a criminal offense to use the restroom of the opposite sex. From a purely practical point, this and generalized fear, are the reasons I don't go out as a woman. If I am dressed as a woman (thankfully convincingly), I am minding my own business. I am not using a men's room in a dress carrying a purse while in heels with shoulder length hair, because in addition to being severely embarrassed (because now there's no doubt...), I will be beaten to a pulp by someone who thinks "faggot" is a funny word to use while beating some poor soul into pulp. That's right, it's actually a reasonable under the circumstances for me to fear for my life if I have to use the bathroom while out in public like that....

Gay bashing happens, and I"m not talking about being offensive I'm talking about with a baseball bat: "How do you turn a fruit into a vegetable? With a baseball bat!"  http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=77571

And then of course: http://www.bilerico.com/2010/01/wow_apparently_gay_bashing_is_funny_at_notre_dame.php it's in a major college newspaper as of Dec 2010....

I guess I should be grateful it isn't 20 years ago when they literally gave people a baseball bat and encouraged them to physically assault gays as a college event:
http://articles.latimes.com/1991-10-22/local/me-292_1_hate-crime

"Come join us for the first annual gay bashing and clubbing night," the flyer invited in bold-faced letters. "Smear the queer. Why waste your money at the batting cages when you can practice your home runs for free?"

.... Fuuuuuuuuuuuck

Ultimately, there is a pervasive fear of some jerkass guy raping some girl in a restroom. Many women have this fear, more or less, and it's not entirely unjustified. It has happened. The problem is that it's hard if not impossible to tell someone like myself, who is not remotely interested in women and generally no harm to anyone ever, from some perv who thinks its funny to dress up as a girl and then try to rape one in a public restroom.... *sigh* I don't know the answer to this problem.

It gets even more complicated when you add "cross dressers" into the mix, which apparently are, surprisingly to me, straight men who ... enjoy wearing women's clothing and have no desire to transition to being a woman? I can't say I really understand this at all, because if these guys are straight then that means they want a woman, who I'm guessing wouldn't find the idea of them in a dress sexy? Personally, I like men, and some males enjoy ... um... people like me ... who are more feminine. I know I'm tempting rule 34, but I don't think most of the women I know would be cool with their boyfriend really enjoying wearing their clothes. Meh, maybe I just don't get it.

On the undocumented immigration thing:
Basically, corporations want slave labor and this is as close as they can get to it.

I was basically told by higher level management to look the other way when our janitors did not have US citizenship, green cards, work visas, and gave us Mexican State IDs as we checked them in. They were also paid below minimum wage.

Pretty much par for the course, unfortunately.

[Vector]

Well, for example:

The label people would probably put on me is "genderqueer."  I have no desire to transition to being a dude, but on some days--if I weren't so obviously girly-looking, and if I weren't afraid of being beaten up--I would really, really like to be able to crossdress.  Not for passing purposes or attraction purposes, but just for my own sense of well-being.

Similarly, not all women dress "sexily" for the purpose of attracting men.  As such, cross-dressing begins to make sense... it is not about "displaying plumage to attract a mate," it is about creating an honest reflection of the inner self, blurring the edges between "masculine" and "feminine," so that even if someone who lives in the middle is attracted to women, there is no longer a mandate of gender role-normativity.

After all, why couldn't a feminine person be attracted to a male-bodied person who wears well-cut dresses?  There's no reason why the object of a straight man's desire has to be straight.

[Truean]

Well, for example:

The label people would probably put on me is "genderqueer."  I have no desire to transition to being a dude, but on some days--if I weren't so obviously girly-looking, and if I weren't afraid of being beaten up--I would really, really like to be able to crossdress.  Not for passing purposes or attraction purposes, but just for my own sense of well-being.

Similarly, not all women dress "sexily" for the purpose of attracting men.  As such, cross-dressing begins to make sense... it is not about "displaying plumage to attract a mate," it is about creating an honest reflection of the inner self, blurring the edges between "masculine" and "feminine," so that even if someone who lives in the middle is attracted to women, there is no longer a mandate of gender role-normativity.

After all, why couldn't a feminine person be attracted to a male-bodied person who wears well-cut dresses?  There's no reason why the object of a straight man's desire has to be straight.

Meh, I guess so. It really kinda goes along the same lines of "who do transgender people date?"

While I want a guy, most guys don't want me, even after an operation.... Same goes for gay guys, who would like guys and thus not me especially after an operation.... Same deal? Eh, I'm fine with this, but it makes things difficult to categorize easily. O well.

[Vector]

Right, exactly--I feel much the same way, sometimes.  I have a lot of different sides that I have to keep in balance, or I end up in trouble.  I don't feel psychologically healthy if I end up too far on the "male" or "female" sides.  But when I was dating a straight-as-an-arrow dude, it was very hard to keep my "masculine" side intact.

As folks say, probably erroneously, "manly men" make women act like "womenly women."  Probably works well for a lot of people, but I couldn't stand it.

[Truean]

Right, exactly--I feel much the same way, sometimes.  I have a lot of different sides that I have to keep in balance, or I end up in trouble.  I don't feel psychologically healthy if I end up too far on the "male" or "female" sides.  But when I was dating a straight-as-an-arrow dude, it was very hard to keep my "masculine" side intact.

As folks say, probably erroneously, "manly men" make women act like "womenly women."  Probably works well for a lot of people, but I couldn't stand it.

Strangely, it works for me, but that's because I fit the female role so well. The guy I dated wasn't ... "super masculine" but more of a "regular guy" type. At least that's the way I thought of him and most people had no clue he goes for my type. He more of less just didn't feel he had anything to prove to anyone. Although come to think of it, he was an engineer(ing student), liked sports.... yeah maybe he was.... hum. Go figure.

I'm ignorant about the entire... gender.... thing, because I was raised to think, among numerous other horrible and untrue things, that all gays are pedophiles. Thankfully I no longer believe this or any of the other bullshit I was taught. This led to a massive amount of denial on my part and an even more immense amount of  sincere fear that I would somehow do those horrible things and the resolution that if I ever seriously thought about doing that I'd voluntarily, fatally shoot myself rather than harm another person that way. It's a thought no one should ever really have to have.... It was some simple logic for my young brain to connect the dots:

Given all gays are pedophiles, which are terrible and gays like men.
If I like men, then I'm gay.
If I'm gay I'll be a pedophile.
If I'm a pedophile then I'll be terrible.
I'd rather shoot myself than be terrible....

It's a thought no one should ever really have to have.... I had a lot of terrible thoughts like that on a lot of prejudiced subjects until I was old enough to realize it was all bullshit. There are still some residual effects though. I usually avoid kids, due entirely to this irrational fear my parents put in me. Thankfully, I've made a couple wonderful friends that have helped me with this. One of my law school friends, his wife and daughter all know pretty much everything about me and they accept me wholeheartedly. They are wonderful people who have me over regularly. It's become sort of a ritual to read his daughter bedtime stories. That and years of therapy, have helped me out immensely.

If I'm reading this right, you sort of seem to want to switch between two sides whereas my "male" side is just an elaborate lie/cover story?

[Dimitri]

Spoiler: My fight to keep my kid off from ADD meds (click to show/hide)

About three years ago, my wife was accusing our oldest of being ADD, because he was too energetic and impulsive for her to control (at the age of 3).  Everyone jumped on board the idea with almost no question.  I was the only person protesting, and everyone thought I was just being stubborn.  I was horrified, but had to give in because everyone was against me.  I finally told my family that doing this was going to plunge me into depression, but that wasn't a problem because they could just give me pills to fix that too.  I then posted to everyone on facebook my prediction that the world would end in a neuroholocaust.  The dominant culture would finally agree on exactly what style of mental functioning and emotional state was considered best, and make a pill that everyone would be required to take that would lock them into that state permanently, turning the entire human race into a single person.  Some people were very unhappy with me for voicing that thought. 

Then came the appointment at the children's hospital.  My wife told the doctor that she thought our kid was ADD, and we were given an assessment form to fill out about his behavior.  A few minutes after we turned that in, a doctor came into the room ready to fill out a prescription.  I don't think she had even looked at the form.  I started talking about how I didn't think our kid was ADD and how uncomfortable I was with this form of medication, and the doctor tried to talk to me about it but my discomfort with the issue seemed completely alien to her.  She just stared right through me.  I talked about this for probably 15 minutes, with my wife just rolling her eyes and the doctor responding with thinly veiled retorts of "what?... you are so wierd..."  Just as things were wrapping up and we were about to walk away with a prescription, a very intense and caring pediatric therapist burst into the room to object.  She put a stop to the whole thing immediately and scheduled a couple sessions for us.  I am so very thankful for her.

I've experienced something similar to this.
I was taken (Under the pressure of my Grandmother) for a psychiatric evaluation at the ripe old age of seven or so, solely for the fact that I wasn't 'Acting like a normal kid'. I liked comic books and video games. I even played outside, with other children even.
Apparently, preferring my own company the majority of the time led to a diagnosis of Severe Clinical Depression. At seven. -Maybe- eight. About the only thing I wasn't remotely content with was the fact that I didn't have the latest Final Fantasy.
So, they put me on Prozac, against my Mother's wishes. It definitely had an effect, and I won't go into specifics.
Needless to say, not only is unnecessary administration of medication common; it's been going on for a while.
Glad there was a sensible person at the hospital you went to, and good luck with the sessions. Hopefully a helpful therapist can talk some sense into the oddballs... seriously, what kid -isn't- hyperactive at three?

Truean:
I can sympathize, in a way.
I won't bore anyone with specifics (It'll probably sound juvenile anyway.), but it sounds like you're leading a successful life, and that's more than most people can say. Yours truly included.

[Siquo]

I've seen my aspie brother drugged to oblivion.

Hey, cool, I got a veggie brother, too! Zombiedrugs yay. ((Is it okay to say "asparagus" if they drugged him into a vegetable? ))

Spoiler: My fight to keep my kid off from ADD meds (click to show/hide)

About three years ago, my wife was accusing our oldest of being ADD, because he was too energetic and impulsive for her to control (at the age of 3).  Everyone jumped on board the idea with almost no question.  I was the only person protesting, and everyone thought I was just being stubborn.  I was horrified, but had to give in because everyone was against me.  I finally told my family that doing this was going to plunge me into depression, but that wasn't a problem because they could just give me pills to fix that too.  I then posted to everyone on facebook my prediction that the world would end in a neuroholocaust.  The dominant culture would finally agree on exactly what style of mental functioning and emotional state was considered best, and make a pill that everyone would be required to take that would lock them into that state permanently, turning the entire human race into a single person.  Some people were very unhappy with me for voicing that thought. 

Then came the appointment at the children's hospital.  My wife told the doctor that she thought our kid was ADD, and we were given an assessment form to fill out about his behavior.  A few minutes after we turned that in, a doctor came into the room ready to fill out a prescription.  I don't think she had even looked at the form.  I started talking about how I didn't think our kid was ADD and how uncomfortable I was with this form of medication, and the doctor tried to talk to me about it but my discomfort with the issue seemed completely alien to her.  She just stared right through me.  I talked about this for probably 15 minutes, with my wife just rolling her eyes and the doctor responding with thinly veiled retorts of "what?... you are so wierd..."  Just as things were wrapping up and we were about to walk away with a prescription, a very intense and caring pediatric therapist burst into the room to object.  She put a stop to the whole thing immediately and scheduled a couple sessions for us.  I am so very thankful for her.

Yeah. You could be more resolute here. I know it's hard, but your wife has (more than average but that's even besides the point as I've never met anyone who doesn't have them) issues, and if they start to damage your kid, it's time to get unpopular.

This "Normal" thing is weird to me. I have never met anyone who is right in their head (including myself). Everyone has issues, somewhere. How are they going to get people to conform to normality if everyone has issues?

[Taricus]

They're trying to get people to conform with what the media say is normal.

[Vector]

It's not so much that I want to switch between two sides as, that when things are balanced correctly, I don't feel like I'm on either side.  I have to strive to keep a balanced mental gender so that I don't endure a number of negative effects.  It's not that I want to switch between the sides, it's that my mental perception of my gender, behavior, and body interact swings from one side to the other, and I'm working to stabilize at perfect center.

When I go too far on the "female" side, I feel weak, impure, lazy, and a whole string of other epithets that could really just be summed up as "fragile, depressed, and mentally unsound."  Oh, and I end up flirting with dudes I'm actually not interested in.  Being submissive and passive are also part of this.  Er, submissive and passive by my standards.  They might actually be "flamingly aggressive" by other people's standards.  I get over-involved in things in the name of nurturing.  I try too hard to make friends and get along.

When I go too far on the "male" side, I end up not only being revolted by my body, but also way too argumentative for most people to deal with, and I start getting urges to flirt with women (that I'm really not interested in), just sort of as a matter of course.  I get aggressively over-involved in things in the name of competition.  I shun friendships.  I feel shocked when I see my face in the mirror and it's a girl-face.  It's alien to me.  Same thing with my hands... they just look wrong, and the sort of thing where you'd say "bro, those aren't my hands!  Shouldn't I be taller than this?  Why do I look so mousy?  This is so weird... I have to lose some weight because jegus, I look like some kind of chick or something.  Thank god my brow line isn't smooth, at the very least.  At least I can feel okay about that."

And, of course, when I end up on one side or another, I start yearning for the standards of the other side, and balance.

I prefer the middle, where I feel that I have a lot more control and flexibility.  I can react to other people's personalities more easily, moving from side to side to counterbalance them and, between the two of us, create symmetry.  I feel peaceful, as I very seldom do.  Sure, my body still feels slightly off, but at least everything else works well.

I guess it's a sort of yin-yang thing, haha.  Anyway, I'm slightly too far on the "female" side at the moment, but I'm working to get back where I should be.

I'd say that the main thing I miss about being a kid was my ability to remain centered at all times.  I don't really know when I lost it--probably around when I learned that there was such a thing as "acting like a girl" or "acting like a boy."  Still working on getting it back.

Anyway, acting particularly like either side is a ruse that occasionally feels like a good response to a situation, but what feels best is trying to find that central point, and standing on it.

Hey, cool, I got a veggie brother, too! Zombiedrugs yay. ((Is it okay to say "asparagus" if they drugged him into a vegetable? ))

I hate to say this, but I laughed.

Jury's out on this one, but I'll leave you with my laughter for now =)

[Criptfeind]

They're trying to get people to conform with what the media say is normal.

Or many times they are trying to correct a serious mental imbalance.

Ether or.

[freeformschooler]

This "Normal" thing is weird to me. I have never met anyone who is right in their head (including myself). Everyone has issues, somewhere. How are they going to get people to conform to normality if everyone has issues?

This is half the reason I started college so early. Everyone is different in college! No one wants to be "normal"!

(well okay more like 1/8th the reason but still)

[Bauglir]

They're trying to get people to conform with what the media say is normal.

Or many times they are trying to correct a serious mental imbalance.

Ether or.

As a general rule, they are trying to correct a serious mental imbalance. "Trying" being the operative word. Doesn't work so much when one doesn't exist. I'm not saying medication is never useful for anyone ever (I've got a friend who seems to have legitimate unable-to-concentrate-on-any-damn-thing ADD, and relies on prescribed amphetamines to function effectively; for him, medication seems to be the right way to go, since he's both happier and more productive). I doubt anyone here is making that assertion; only that misdiagnoses are too frequent.

[Criptfeind]

I doubt anyone here is making that assertion

I know they are not right now. But that sorta medicinal hate can spring up like wildfire around here. In a snap you have whole pages dedicated to saying the whole pharmaceutical industry is is giant conspiracy that wants to make zombies out of everyone. I just wanted to make sure that I was here actively if it started.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

They're trying to get people to conform with what the media say is normal.

Or many times they are trying to correct a serious mental imbalance.

Ether or.

As a general rule, they are trying to correct a serious mental imbalance. "Trying" being the operative word. Doesn't work so much when one doesn't exist. I'm not saying medication is never useful for anyone ever (I've got a friend who seems to have legitimate unable-to-concentrate-on-any-damn-thing ADD, and relies on prescribed amphetamines to function effectively; for him, medication seems to be the right way to go, since he's both happier and more productive). I doubt anyone here is making that assertion; only that misdiagnoses are too frequent.

In general, serious mental imbalances can be recongnized as legitimately existing by people who aren't trained psychologists, and then the individual can be taken to the trained psychologist to be sure. It really is quite obvious when somthing is wrong with a person's mental state, at least in most of the unbalanced people I've ever encountered. On ADD/ADHD, I've met one person in my entire life who definitely has the disorder and needs medication to function, as I've seen how different he is off of it. All the others forced on it just sort of become dead inside when they're on the medication. It's like watching medical horror play out in real life, on people I consider my friends. And no one ever listens when I object, not even the victims themselves.