You are not allowed to be upset about woman or "female" words/concepts being used in derogatory ways, and then use man or "male" shit the very same way yourself, without being a hypocrite.
Truean already talked about this a lot, so I'm mostly skipping over this, because I don't have the energy to address everything in the world.
But this has nothing to do with "bad because he's a dude and dudes are just bad." This is a term for abusing a power gradient from a certain side. There is no female term because it's impossible.
Just like there's no female version of the word "emasculate."
Because you know, the same excuse can be made about "bitching" - it can be said to not refer to "women in general", just people or the women who complains. It's just rationalisations and apologetics. Hell, she doesn't even make a comparison to something else considered bad/lesser worth (ie, a female dog), she just plainly uses "man" like it was inherently disparaging and without value.
Men in general: talk down to women and put them in their place with "derailment tactics."
Women in general: Weak, pussified animals.
Woman: bad because she is a complaining dog. That's her nature.
Man: bad for, er, some reason. Maybe because of his behavior, which can be changed.
The truth is, I don't "like" that word either. I'm never going to use it, mostly because I think it sounds silly. But, just as I'm not going to get upset when black people use "honky" as a word to mean "racially insensitive white people," I'm not going to get upset about that blogger's diction. As another blogger wrote: "I care about my right to use this word more than I care about your being offended. Sorry."
Women make so-called "safe spaces" on the internet, where they are in masse and they have controlling power, and comments are screened to throw out misogyny. Inevitably, men come running up and saying "but that's not fair! I'm insulted! Why won't you listen to me! Why don't I matter! Why aren't you preserving my free speech!" I'm not saying this is what you're doing, by the way. Normally, it looks a hell of a lot worse than this does.
And the women say "Well, why do we have to be talking about you and your needs all the time? What about our free speech? You get to be as misogynistic as you want and derail our conversations, but we can't use a word to talk about what happens when dudes come and talk down to us or tell you to shut up? What the fuck is this?"
Something like that.
This isn't a so-called "safe space." It doesn't really apply. But that blog is, which is why you might see some terms you don't like over there every once in a while. Sorry.
What do you think of JRR Tolkien's Dwarves? They seem to be "equal" physically across sex to the point where they have beards, all of them (as was the case in DF originally). Sadly the race dies out because there aren't enough ... wodwarfs (?) to make enough dwarf babies.... Particularly appropriate to ask here, you know... Dwarf Fortress... and all.
Sadly, I don't actually have much of an opinion on that one, because I last read Lord of the Rings waaay back in middle school.
In any case, I seem to remember enjoying the books.
OK, this is the one thing about you that I just can't understand. It's fine if you don't understand certain kinds of humour, but why the hell do you have to butt in with a friggin sermon every time somebody makes a joke that's not to your taste?
One of the apparently many things you just don't understand about me is that I don't. I pretty much never call out people using the words "bitch," "bitching," or "pussy" unless they've already been really offensive in some other way. I pass on "retarded," "lame," "crazy," "crippled." I leave alone all kinds of gay/effeminacy jokes. I don't tell people who post triggering information (other than epilepsy-causing stuff) to add warnings, even when I personally am left reeling. I don't tell people to stop enjoying the things they like, or how those things interact with society (prime example: Duke Nukem).
I don't say anything when people say stuff like "Dude, _______________ got
raped!" when they don't mean "raped" at all, and are trivializing the experience of survivors.
But there are some things that I refuse to tolerate. They are jokes and comments I read while simultaneously recoiling, feeling downright sick. I give flinch-jokes a pass. They aren't funny--they're downright hurtful, in fact--but I know they aren't worth the argument. I know it's not worth the emotional cost of being dog-piled and losing my credibility. I know it's not worth the long hours I'll have to spend arguing, instead of doing something "useful."
I step in with a sermon because I assume that anyone who would make such a comment has no fucking idea just how hurtful they are.
This society has left me, like many women--like most women--the sort of person who walks into social interactions and plans escape routes. I don't like being hugged. I freak out when people touch my shoulders, sometimes to the point of stepping back and screaming "back off" at the top of my lungs. Even people I've known my entire life.
Because I spent years, and years, with my so-called "best friend" touching me. Lingering touches. We'd hug goodbye and she'd run her fingers across my ribcage or my arms, staring deep into my eyes. She'd look at a pin on my shirt and put her face in my chest. Show up behind me, breathing through her nose. Watch a movie and slowly lean her head onto my shoulder. Wrap her arm tight around my waist for pictures. Grab me, hug me, and when I struggled to get free, she'd hold on harder, laughing, and when I started hyperventilating, continue laughing, and when I snarled and put my teeth around my arm to warn her that
this was it, only stop when a man told her to stop. We were on a sleepover once together and I woke up with her hands wrapped around my breasts. It was all I could do to keep from screaming.
Years later, in college, another young woman grabbed my breasts as I begged her to stop, nearly crying, with her boyfriend looking on and smirking. This was supposed to be our big introduction to each other--the friend I made in college, and the girl he loved. I kept on begging and trying (failing) to hold her at arms' length. I finally ran away. She kept on laughing as she chased me down the stairs, telling me to slow down and wait up so she could hug me some more.
At dinner, when I was protective of my food, she asked me if I'd had a violent childhood.
Because my consent was less important to these women than their privilege to touch me, I do not tolerate rape jokes.
My father has a habit of sitting down at the dinner table and asking women to pass him things that are closer to him than they are to us. He'll ask us to serve him. Sometimes, he'll say: "Vector, give me your hand! I have a present for you." When I stick out my hand, smiling and trusting as usual, he puts the trash he's done with in it.
I am sensitive to gender-charged language partially because it's one of the ways he reduces my female friends whose behavior he doesn't like. Men get "humorous," over the top threats of violence for their behavior. But women are bitches.
There's always more, but that's all I feel like talking about for today.
You accused me of "perpetuating misogyny." You also accused millions of other people of it, none of whom you've ever met, and a lot of which are women. This isn't a good way to get people to take you seriously - making sweeping accusations against people you know nothing about - particularly when I'm taking the time to try and have a reasonable discussion.
Women can be misogynistic, as well. I should know. I used to be a misogynist. I don't mean the mild kind, either...
And, once again, unless you have some sort of better way to get women to be listened to, I'm just going to keep doing the best I can with the tools that I have.
And while on the hunt for misogyny, you should really keep in mind that if you can't objectively explain to someone why a certain speech or interaction was misogynistic, and in what ways it was different than how the same situation would have gone if the genders of the parties involved had been different, people (like me ITT) are going to view you as the boy who cried wolf.
I don't watch enough political debate to be able to give you an objective, universal, scholarly answer. Politics is not my area of expertise. All the same, I trust that blogger, who does spend a hell of a lot of time enmeshed in reading at watching these things. I do not have an ability to personally verify every single thing I put out. This is not my field of study or my full-time job. If you dislike the quality of my work, you can visit other places on the internet, and at this point I frankly don't give a flying crap about getting your validation for my point of view.
The boy who cries wolf is the one who is wrong, over and over and over again, while his supporters believe him and then finally don't come at the crucial moment.
Is the girl who cries wolf the one who is occasionally incorrect, and is thus worth ignoring?
@ Vector, thank you for being sensitive to transphobia.
No problem. Would you like me to use female pronouns for you, if only in this thread? As far as the rest of the forums go, Ein is openly MtF and as far as I know no one ever gives her any shit. You probably won't have to take any direct crap for being a girl, either. Most of the stuff I observe around here is, well, institutionalized and kind of scary, but it doesn't tend to be leveled directly at women.
Only seen one person making remotely transphobic statements, and that was a few years ago in a mafia game. They quit pretty fast.
It's up to you, in any case, but I just want you to know that there's other people out there, and they seem to be doing okay =)
I was also surprised that you didn't think Firefly made the cut.
Eh, there's a lot of debate over things like tokenism and fetishization around that, so I didn't add it because I didn't feel overwhelmingly positive about it.
I'm mostly a gamer.
Hurm... well, if I think of any particularly feminist games, I'll toss them your way.
But when I see Vector... When I see you respond to Africa and such with such a massive, bitter chip on your shoulder about any hint of unintentional sexism, I really feel like you've lost the ability to distinguish between people who don't care about sexism, and people who just can't and never could see it the way you do.
Most dudes manage to explain things to me without repeatedly telling me that they get to decide when they're being misogynistic and when they're not, and that I
just don't understand how I should be presenting myself.
I really hate
tone arguments.
I will happily listen to, and talk with, most dudes. I will not talk to dudes who talk down to me without making them feel highly uncomfortable, and possibly angry. This is because they have made me feel highly uncomfortable, and usually very angry. I reserve my right to annoyance in these situations.
If for no other reason than because I think there should always be room for honest disagreement. I'd like to think I've proven that I truly do mean neither you or anyone harm, and have at least some grasp of the magnitude of the problem, but I can't say anything. Because I know it won't be heard, and to an extent, doesn't even deserve to be heard, in light of the greater reality of sexism.
There's lots of room for respectful disagreement in this thread, and I trust you. As such, I am listening to you--though I do disagree with you =) I know you're paying attention. Even if you piss me off, you have a much, much larger "tolerance bar" in my opinion of you before I start giving you a dressing down.
Other people, who will not be named in their plurality, don't--in this thread and otherwise, mostly due to previous experience.
As such, please let it be known that I'm not looking for trouble. A lot of the times when I get angry at someone it's due to encounters with them in other threads. Some people get milder warnings than others because I see them being kind. Just like everyone else, I'm not a machine, and this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum. My personal feelings get mixed into it. Obviously.
So, er... yeah. Thanks for your concern. I don't want this to turn into a backwards, man-hating, bullshittacular thread, but there are times when I will be upset--"more upset than necessary" to some, but often less upset than I feel. And, well, I'm not perfect, so please bear with me. One of the reasons why I was happy to see Nikov here is because he's good at keeping me in line, and thinking both sides >_>
In any case, I know this is a bit indecisive, but I hope what I've said has gotten something across.
In an autistic "I don't see how it contributes to the problem, it's sexists and racists that contribute to the problem"-way.
Unless you have autism, I would like you not to appropriate that term for your own enjoyment.
I am too angry to get any more leverage on this. So this is a post to say that you've pissed me off, and if you feel like it you can try to figure out why, because I don't feel like explaining any more right now.
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Topic: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread (Read 870829 times)