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Author Topic: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread  (Read 872383 times)

Leafsnail

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #75 on: June 04, 2011, 05:59:57 pm »

It's like that, methinks, so there aren't more rape charges where someone was just drunk and has buyer's remorse. As for them being completely unconscious in the first place, I'm pretty sure that's not legal regardless.
I don't deny that what you describe is possible, but it's ridiculous to have a definition that excludes actual rapes in order to combat falsely reported rapes.  For unconscious... yes, maybe it's not legal, but under this definition it won't count as rape when it is.  As in, someone who committed a rape would probably get some kind of lesser sexual assault charge.

Seriously, just... ugh.  I'm not sure why the definition can't just be based on consent (with additional clauses for those unable to give informed consent such as minors).  I mean... this definition would even exclude, say, someone having sex with someone who had earlier been mugged and left unconscious (making it bad even if you believe victims are responsible for their rapes).

Also, the definition would make it rape if someone consents to being knocked out and engaging in sex.  But I have a feeling that's not quite as important.
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Africa

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #76 on: June 04, 2011, 06:02:15 pm »

What actual rapes are being excluded by that definition?
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Darvi

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #77 on: June 04, 2011, 06:05:46 pm »

this definition would even exclude, say, someone having sex with someone who had earlier been mugged and left unconscious (making it bad even if you believe victims are responsible for their rapes).
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Africa

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #78 on: June 04, 2011, 06:06:55 pm »

I really doubt that would be considered legal.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #79 on: June 04, 2011, 06:11:00 pm »

I... already said them in my previous posts, but I'll summarise.  If we take the definition of rape to be "having sex with someone without their consent", then the reasonably likely rapes that the legal definition excludes are cases where the victim is in a state where they cannot resist, as long as you yourself didn't cause that condition.  Possibilities: victim is drunk, on drugs, left unconscious as a result of an earlier attack, passed out from exhaustion, asleep.  Note that they don't even need to be outside of their home - if you're very drunk in your own house and someone forces their way in and has sex with you, it's still not rape under this definition.

And yes, it would not be considered legal BUT IT WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED RAPE.  It would be considered a more minor crime.  I mean... imagine if murder had a similar definition.  You're drunk in a bar to a point where you can't resist.  I walk up to you and smash your head in with a bottle, killing you.  Would you be satisfied with me getting a charge of assisted suicide rather than murder, since you didn't attempt to resist and it wasn't me who put you in a condition where you couldn't?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 06:12:55 pm by Leafsnail »
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Gamerlord

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #80 on: June 04, 2011, 06:12:49 pm »

I... already said them in my previous posts, but I'll summarise.  If we take the definition of rape to be "having sex with someone without their consent", then the reasonably likely rapes that the legal definition excludes are cases where the victim is in a state where they cannot resist, as long as you yourself didn't cause that condition.  Possibilities: victim is drunk, on drugs, left unconscious as a result of an earlier attack, passed out from exhaustion, asleep.  Note that they don't even need to be outside of their home - if you're very drunk in your own house and someone forces their way in and has sex with you, it's still not rape under this definition.

And yes, it would not be considered legal BUT IT WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED RAPE.  It would be considered a more minor crime.  I mean... imagine if murder had a similar definition.  You're drunk in a bar to a point where you can't resist.  I walk up to you and smash your head in with a bottle, killing you.  Would you be satisfied with me getting a charge of assisted suicide rather than murder, since you didn't attempt to resist and it wasn't me who put you in a condition where you couldn't?

This is troubling.

ggamer

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #81 on: June 04, 2011, 06:17:52 pm »

Quote
Spoiler: OPINIONS, MOTHER FUCKER

Put yourself in the shoes of the other side : what if you had to change states to marry because the gay majority doesn't like baptists? If you knew you'd have less chance to find a job than a black guy because you're white?

On Christianity, do yourself a favor and stop taking old testament literally. We have a frigging picture of the times just after the big bang (I refer to the cosmological background). That and you're supposed to go to hell for wearing mixed fabrics and eating shells and lobsters.
That apply to the gay thing too btw.

On the abortion thing, if I understand you well you're against abortion after the second trimester, except under specials circumstances? (Such as rape or endangering the mother's life?) Then I sorry to disclose it to you but your opinion, may be,... sit down, I know it won't be easy for you, but... PROGRESSIVE. There it's said.

1- At that point, my friend, I would have moved away anyway.
And what about race? I think that after over fifty years, I would have equal chance to get a job as other minorities.

2-

...

What?

3- Thanks. I am against abortion after the second trimester, and in some cases abortion in the first is acceptable. Granted, I like to think that those cases don't exist as much, but nevertheless.


-VAGUE ANGRY DISCLAIMER-
A panic for no reason?

When I can be sure to make as much as a man with the same education, capability, and talent--rather than 20% less--we can talk.

Speaking strictly probabilistically, I have a 17% chance of being raped in the United States.

When gay people the world over do not risk persecution, death, and sub-citizen status--then we will talk.

When people of color are adequately represented in media as people, rather than being continued to be treated like savage animals, objects of fear and hatred, or of fetishistic desire--yeah, let's have a chitchat.

When mental illness is no longer seen as automatic grounds for the dismissal of an argument, you may have a leg to stand on.

But for now, you seem to have mistaken the title of this thread for "GGamer's Flaming Wad of Soapbox Morals Thread."  This is my thread.  Curb yourself and treat me with respect, and treat the people you share this thread with respectfully.  You're making a fool of yourself.

Also, I have not had sexual relations with my mother.  This is a notice to curb your language.

1- Look down. Total shitstorm. I'm kind of proud.

2- Yes, that is a problem in today's society. That post was my opinion, and did not reflect the world today.

3- And that is relevant?

4- Black people ARE represented as equal parts of the media. might I direct you to this.

5- Relevance?

6- Jah, Herr vector!

7- That... was a bit of a side rant against AoS griefers. I would rather you not take every vaguely worded insult literally.

And to that other post...

1- No, that's not at all what I meant. Women killing babies past the second trimester just seems immoral to me, and as I said, "There's this amazing establishment called a FUCKING ORPHANAGE"

2- It's making mountains out of molehills that pisses me off. I don't go down the street and see gay people getting shot, nor can I pick up any discrimination against them.

-snip snip-

1- Yes, It's perfectly reasonable that to have a gay marraige, you must move to another state. Just like it's reasonable that back in the 50's if you wanted more than one wife you had to move to Utah. Deviancy is called Deviancy for a reason.

3-7- Can't argue.

8- This might be hard to wrap your head around, seeing as how most conservatives claim they are christian, but I do get discriminated against, even in the south for being a christian.



Why the FUCK do these issues have to be such a FUCKING HUGE DEAL.
I'd say this is a staggeringly arrogant viewpoint, personally.  It's basically I'M RIGHT AND ANYONE WHO DISAGREES IS STUPID FOR NOT SEEING THAT.  Unless you're saying we should all be chill about these issues since they don't matter too much, but I'm not sure if CONSTANT CAPS LOCK is the way to get that message across.

Going through the actual content point by point...
- Gay rights... uh... why shouldn't they be allowed to "flout their homosexuality"?  I mean, if someone arbitrarily didn't like something you do, would you be ok with not doing it for their sake?
- Abortion... what exactly is so special about the second trimester that makes fetuses "SMALL CHILDREN"?  And if you "DON'T GIVE A FUCK IF YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CHILD YOU DON'T WANT", then shouldn't you also not give a fuck about whether they have an abortion?  Even if this isn't the case, why exactly should what you give a fuck about dictate what other people are allowed to do?
- Prayer time... praying isn't banned in schools, is it?  I mean, it's a silent, discreet act.  Interesting fact: prayer time is actually technically mandatory in England, but noone does it because it's clearly a waste of time and believers can pray on their own time rather than the school's.  EDIT: I mean that enforced prayer time is a waste of time, not the prayer itself, which you can determine the value of yourself.
- Evolution... I'm not even sure what to say about this one.  "THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE ALL CAME FROM FUCKING MONKEYS YOU STUPID FUCKTARDS" seems like a ridiculously inflammatory view born from... what?  There's evidence to show that we evolved from primate-like creatures and have shared ancestry with monkeys (although remember this doesn't imply that we evolved from monkeys - monkeys evolved from the same common ancestor as us, is the idea) and if you don't believe that, that's fine.  But why call anyone who does look at the evidence and decide that we evolved from monkeys "STUPID FUCKTARDS"?
- Racism... just seems to be incoherent, nondirectional anger.  You seem to be annoyed that people of other ethnicities have reclaimed a word that was once a racist slur... well, what's wrong with that?  I mean, might it not be the case that discrimination still exists...?

Pre-A- I didn't want to come across as that. That whole disclaimer was to stop the endless cycle of butthurt. but moving on.

1- I would be annoyed, but Intentionally doing something that society views as deviancy for the sake of doing it seems kind of arrogant.

2- Vital signs and brain function is what makes them small children. However, I think it's alright if you're forced to have a a baby, or are raped. Even though it was filled with RAEG, you can still read words.

3- Grey area. Argument makes sense.

4- I guess I was being a little troll-ish on that one. I just don't respect the validity of statements that say we evolve from primates, or orangutangs, should the case provide.

5- They're bringing back words that once carried offense hoping it will carry the same connotation that it did 60 years ago. Granted, I still hear black people being called nigger, but Bringing back nonsensical words like jap and greaser just doesn't make sense to me.

This all being said, I apologize for seeming blunt earlier. I was really pissed, and was senslessly raging.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 06:20:44 pm by ggamer »
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Gamerlord

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #82 on: June 04, 2011, 06:28:02 pm »


5- They're bringing back words that once carried offense hoping it will carry the same connotation that it did 60 years ago. Granted, I still hear black people being called nigger, but Bringing back nonsensical words like jap and greaser just doesn't make sense to me.

Hey, quick Q, is it rascist for a black guy to call me whitey? Cos theres this guy at school who whenever anyone criticises him for anything goes straight to the calling them a racist.

Cheeetar

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #83 on: June 04, 2011, 06:34:09 pm »

6- Jah, Herr vector!

While I dislike all of your post, shouldn't this be 'Ja, Frau Vector'?
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Leafsnail

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #84 on: June 04, 2011, 06:37:59 pm »

1- I would be annoyed, but Intentionally doing something that society views as deviancy for the sake of doing it seems kind of arrogant.

2- Vital signs and brain function is what makes them small children. However, I think it's alright if you're forced to have a a baby, or are raped. Even though it was filled with RAEG, you can still read words.

3- Grey area. Argument makes sense.

4- I guess I was being a little troll-ish on that one. I just don't respect the validity of statements that say we evolve from primates, or orangutangs, should the case provide.

5- They're bringing back words that once carried offense hoping it will carry the same connotation that it did 60 years ago. Granted, I still hear black people being called nigger, but Bringing back nonsensical words like jap and greaser just doesn't make sense to me.
1 - Uh, why?  If something you did was arbitrarily branded "deviancy", would it be arrogant for you to keep doing it?  Heck, let's take your opinions on this board.  They're unusual... perhaps I could call them deviant (let's imagine that this entire board agreed).  Would it therefore be wrong for you to make posts expressing your views here?

2 - ...Do vital signs and brain functions make someone a child?  How do you decide that, and why do you get to dictate that to everyone else?  And yes, you're allowing it in cases of rape, but what if you don't want to have the child?

4 - Uh, are you saying that regardless of evidence you "don't respect" the validity of statements saying we evolved from some kind of ancestor common to those of primates (and indeed every other species of animal)?  Why, and why are people "fucktards" for advancing a view which is backed up by evidence?

5 - ...Are they?  Who are "they", anyway?
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chaoticag

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #85 on: June 04, 2011, 06:40:52 pm »

Yeesh, do you really need to have gay people move away to enjoy your life ggamer? Whatever happened to other people's innaliable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

Ultimately, people you dislike for no other reason than they believe something you don't will always exist. If you want to keep them away, build a fence. And you can pray in school, perfectly legal, you can pray all day and all night if you choose. The problem is that formal prayer at school is not only government endorsment of religion, but effectively asks people to lie about themselves.
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Angle

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #86 on: June 04, 2011, 06:47:33 pm »

You know what really makes me RAEG? People who do not respect knowledge or learning. People who would rather be ignorant then informed. People who refuse to think, or listen or try to understand. These people make me RAEG.


1- Look down. Total shitstorm. I'm kind of proud.


Total shitstorm? Are you serious? If you think this is a total shitstorm, then you cannot have been on the internet very long. This is a calm and polite discussion. You have nothing to be proud of.

Also, when making huge posts like that, can we use Spoilers please? makes it easier to navigate.
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freeformschooler

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #87 on: June 04, 2011, 06:48:49 pm »

Yeesh, do you really need to have gay people move away to enjoy your life ggamer? Whatever happened to other people's innaliable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

^^^
ggamer, please reply to this guy's quote right here. I have very rarely disagreed with a person more than I disagree with you, so I want to see what you think of this.
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scriver

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #88 on: June 04, 2011, 06:59:54 pm »

I... already said them in my previous posts, but I'll summarise.  If we take the definition of rape to be "having sex with someone without their consent", then the reasonably likely rapes that the legal definition excludes are cases where the victim is in a state where they cannot resist, as long as you yourself didn't cause that condition.  Possibilities: victim is drunk, on drugs, left unconscious as a result of an earlier attack, passed out from exhaustion, asleep.  Note that they don't even need to be outside of their home - if you're very drunk in your own house and someone forces their way in and has sex with you, it's still not rape under this definition.

And yes, it would not be considered legal BUT IT WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED RAPE.  It would be considered a more minor crime.  I mean... imagine if murder had a similar definition.  You're drunk in a bar to a point where you can't resist.  I walk up to you and smash your head in with a bottle, killing you.  Would you be satisfied with me getting a charge of assisted suicide rather than murder, since you didn't attempt to resist and it wasn't me who put you in a condition where you couldn't?
Isn't it plausible that it assumes consent is ungiven by default? That if you are never able to to give consent in the first place, it is non-consensual, and thusly rape?
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chaoticag

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #89 on: June 04, 2011, 07:15:52 pm »

The thing with rape laws is that they're sometimes modified to reduce the statistical reports of rape, so it's kinda why there are so many odd rape laws out there. Yeah, it's BS, but people don't seem to notice. 
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