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[SalmonGod]

Yeah, if our technology does us any disservice, it's in giving us the deceptive appearance of advanced wealth.  In fact, it's all cheap shit condolence prizes to help us cope with a lack of freedom and opportunity.  I honestly think the whole "emo" thing that people love to hate on so much is an epidemic of existential crisis from supposedly "privileged" middle-class kids who grow up in sterile, controlled, emotionless environments with nothing but cheap media spectacle to sustain their sense of being.

[EveryZig]

People in the US seem to be taught that that they deserve anything they can get for themselves

That is why I believe that the idea that the world is naturally just is one of the single most malignant ideas in mainstream society.
It sounds at first like it encourages good behavior, but all the while it whispers to every victim that deep down, it is all their fault, that they are responsible for the actions of others or chance. The successful, rather than being frightened of retribution for any immoral acts that led to their success, are instead assured that their success is a sign that they were in the right after all.
The idea of an inherently just world, where each person naturally gets their due, is an idea that allows people to look at injustice and know it as justice.
And libertarianism is the epitome of this idea (not counting the branches that are simple "I don't give a shit about others" psychopathy).

[Truean]

You know what's really funny: it's cooperation, not competition that helps business. They will never teach you this in college, because it's true in the real world.

Networking....
Referral Networks....

I learned from the old boss about why he kept giving the real estate agents free advice/why he taught a class for dirt cheap. He was a real estate lawyer and they were at ground zero when a real estate lawsuit happened. They knew him and gave his name it their clients who became his clients.... They did this a lot and he got a living. Unless you are a major company that relies upon national advertising initiatives and most of us aren't, this is how it is done.

It isn't the super aggressive who make the best businesspeople/attorneys. It's the ones who are (or appear to be) charming as all hell.

[NonconsensualSurgery]

...and not the things they had. Like jobs. And a good economy.

Without those things we won't have the other things they see.... Let's not forget some other things we have that they don't: massive debt.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/tennessee-family-home-burns-while-firefighters-watch-191241763.html

This is the end result of libertarianism. It's happened numerous times too. Really people? NO FEE MODELS. Taxes <--- good.

Famous second to last words: "I don't want to pay TAXES!!!" <--- said with hatred.
Famous last words: "What do you mean you won't put out my burning house???" <-- said with disbelief.

Welcome to the full, exact, logical consequences of the situation.

The truth is horrifying. Consider this famous thought experiment:

A trolley is running out of control down a track. In its path are five people who have been tied to the track by a mad philosopher. Fortunately, you could flip a switch, which will lead the trolley down a different track to safety. Unfortunately, there is a single person tied to that track. Should you flip the switch or do nothing?

Every single internet libertarian I've ever queried has answered the same way. I've also seen them switch choices when they were told that pretty much everyone answers the other way and finds their choice kind of freaky.

The full logical consequences of an action are not evaluated and weighed the same way by everyone. Deep down they find your concern for other people funny and of secondary importance to things other people have a lot of trouble understanding.

For a sociopath, watching someone else's house burn down in a socially acceptable venue while the owner weeps would be better than television. Especially if they were holding a firehose.

Morality is just a system of rules for them. If you give them a problem where the answer is outside the normal system of rules then they can't answer correctly. The non-aggression principle is partly just sociopaths trying to make sense of all these rules about not killing people and distill it into something their minds can comprehend.

Not all libertarians are sociopaths, but enough of them are that it's more than fair to treat them with caution. They just really seem to love this particular philosophy. People who are under their powerful emotional influence can also be shockingly dangerous and very much like a true sociopath even if they have some twinge of empathy left; Google the Milgram experiment.

Don't hate them all though. Every once in a while you will find an anarchist or minarchist who really believes, and they are strange and beautiful beings.

[Truean]

...and not the things they had. Like jobs. And a good economy.

Without those things we won't have the other things they see.... Let's not forget some other things we have that they don't: massive debt.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/tennessee-family-home-burns-while-firefighters-watch-191241763.html

This is the end result of libertarianism. It's happened numerous times too. Really people? NO FEE MODELS. Taxes <--- good.

Famous second to last words: "I don't want to pay TAXES!!!" <--- said with hatred.
Famous last words: "What do you mean you won't put out my burning house???" <-- said with disbelief.

Welcome to the full, exact, logical consequences of the situation.

The truth is horrifying. Consider this famous thought experiment:

A trolley is running out of control down a track. In its path are five people who have been tied to the track by a mad philosopher. Fortunately, you could flip a switch, which will lead the trolley down a different track to safety. Unfortunately, there is a single person tied to that track. Should you flip the switch or do nothing?

Every single internet libertarian I've ever queried has answered the same way. I've also seen them switch choices when they were told that pretty much everyone answers the other way and finds their choice kind of freaky.

The full logical consequences of an action are not evaluated and weighed the same way by everyone. Deep down they find your concern for other people funny and of secondary importance to things other people have a lot of trouble understanding.

For a sociopath, watching someone else's house burn down in a socially acceptable venue while the owner weeps would be better than television. Especially if they were holding a firehose.

Morality is just a system of rules for them. If you give them a problem where the answer is outside the normal system of rules then they can't answer correctly. The non-aggression principle is partly just sociopaths trying to make sense of all these rules about not killing people and distill it into something their minds can comprehend.

Not all libertarians are sociopaths, but enough of them are that it's more than fair to treat them with caution. They just really seem to love this particular philosophy. People who are under their powerful emotional influence can also be shockingly dangerous and very much like a true sociopath even if they have some twinge of empathy left; Google the Milgram experiment.

Don't hate them all though. Every once in a while you will find an anarchist or minarchist who really believes, and they are strange and beautiful beings.

I just want the firemen to put out my house if it burns. They will if someone pays them.

That's about the extent of what I was thinking when I wrote that, also M&Ms.

[SalmonGod]

Don't hate them all though. Every once in a while you will find an anarchist or minarchist who really believes, and they are strange and beautiful beings.

I have a co-worker who is one of these.  Besides a couple positive internet acquaintances, he is the main reason I don't demonize right-wing libertarianism as a whole.  You might have to drag it out of him, but he will admit to the flaws and limitations of his beliefs.  He's even recently confessed that he sees the world in such a state that he feels like we need a short period of hardcore socialist wealth redistribution, or else a conversion to libertarianism would be a death sentence for too many people.  At the same time, he still manages to be obnoxiously dogmatic.  He has serious trouble adapting his political stance to situations that are not black & white, and in his head will twist anything into being the government's fault.  He's very aware of and opposed to corporate corruption, but he believes this behavior is 100% the result of government regulation tampering with natural market processes which, in a truly free market, would have punished such behavior.  Introducing other factors which can't be easily marginalized simply causes him to BSOD or claim he's just not well-versed enough in economics to formulate a response.

[Truean]

http://news.yahoo.com/state-mom-shot-kids-self-denied-food-stamps-204249288.html

O we're "confused" why she did it? She and her two kids were starving, simple. Not a coincidence she did this in the state welfare agency she was denied food stamps in.... Why yes, there are consequences to cutting social programs, including mental health services....

"Despite those complaints, Baeza said it wasn't clear what specifically triggered the standoff."
How god damn stupid can people pretend to be exactly? They wanted verification of employment, which does not exist for her, cause she's broke and jobless and starving.... Twits....

Edit: Look at the worthless over-privileged morons commenting about how "she just wanted a handout without a job." I hope this person starves to death for saying that; I really do.

[ChairmanPoo]

http://news.yahoo.com/state-mom-shot-kids-self-denied-food-stamps-204249288.html

O we're "confused" why she did it? She and her two kids were starving, simple. Not a coincidence she did this in the state welfare agency she was denied food stamps in.... Why yes, there are consequences to cutting social programs, including mental health services....

Wait, is this the same one from a few pages back? The one who had to lie in the foodstamp thing to feed her family, but paid the money back afterwards, but got a prison sentenve nonetheless?

[Truean]

http://news.yahoo.com/state-mom-shot-kids-self-denied-food-stamps-204249288.html

O we're "confused" why she did it? She and her two kids were starving, simple. Not a coincidence she did this in the state welfare agency she was denied food stamps in.... Why yes, there are consequences to cutting social programs, including mental health services....

Wait, is this the same one from a few pages back? The one who had to lie in the foodstamp thing to feed her family, but paid the money back afterwards, but got a prison sentenve nonetheless?

I don't think so, or at least the article doesn't say.

[SalmonGod]

http://news.yahoo.com/state-mom-shot-kids-self-denied-food-stamps-204249288.html

O we're "confused" why she did it? She and her two kids were starving, simple. Not a coincidence she did this in the state welfare agency she was denied food stamps in.... Why yes, there are consequences to cutting social programs, including mental health services....

Wait, is this the same one from a few pages back? The one who had to lie in the foodstamp thing to feed her family, but paid the money back afterwards, but got a prison sentenve nonetheless?

No.  This person failed to provide some information of undisclosed nature and amount.

[RedKing]

...and not the things they had. Like jobs. And a good economy.

Without those things we won't have the other things they see.... Let's not forget some other things we have that they don't: massive debt.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/tennessee-family-home-burns-while-firefighters-watch-191241763.html

This is the end result of libertarianism. It's happened numerous times too. Really people? NO FEE MODELS. Taxes <--- good.

Famous second to last words: "I don't want to pay TAXES!!!" <--- said with hatred.
Famous last words: "What do you mean you won't put out my burning house???" <-- said with disbelief.

Welcome to the full, exact, logical consequences of the situation.

Man, why do I read Yahoo comments? It's like a bad trainwreck -- I know what I'm going to see, I know I'm going to be disgusted, but I can't stop myself


Today's Wondermark does as good a job as any I've ever seen at defending wealth in Congress:

Spoiler: It makes such perfect sense... (click to show/hide)

[ChairmanPoo]

...and not the things they had. Like jobs. And a good economy.

Without those things we won't have the other things they see.... Let's not forget some other things we have that they don't: massive debt.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/tennessee-family-home-burns-while-firefighters-watch-191241763.html

This is the end result of libertarianism. It's happened numerous times too. Really people? NO FEE MODELS. Taxes <--- good.

Famous second to last words: "I don't want to pay TAXES!!!" <--- said with hatred.
Famous last words: "What do you mean you won't put out my burning house???" <-- said with disbelief.

Welcome to the full, exact, logical consequences of the situation.

Do we know whether they didn't pay because of ideological phobias to social services? Perhaps they were just poor, and have become even poorer because of this.

[scriver]

While $75 a year seems like a pretty petty penny, they did live in a mobile home, which I guess means a house-car/t of some sort? It would seem they were pretty poor, then, I think.

@RedKing - Damn, I never would have guessed that's how it was! We need to stop this Occupy nonsense at once, before the aliens invade!

[Criptfeind]

I dunno. Some mobile homes are quite nice. I know of one that actually has more square footage then my fathers home.

Edit: Of course the word mobile can be... Misleading sometimes.

[scriver]

Well yeah, there are who do prefer to live in those car-houses rather than buildings, I guess. My neighbour's brother and brother's-wife, when they retired, sold their house, bought one of those big nice mobile homes to drive around Europe with (Spain, France and Italy especially) and live where ever. Pretty cool concept, I think. They certainly aren't lacking for money, but then again, they wouldn't be able to pay any such fees anyway since they don't hang around for long.

Then again I also know that at least a part of Sweden's homeless people statistics is made up out of people who don't live in a traditional housing, wanting to live in "freedom" in their stationary house-carts instead. I saw a documentary about some of them a couple of years ago. They didn't look very rich at all.