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[Truean]

I submitted a question for the debate: but I don't think they will ask it...

Its the classic line from season 1 Colbert Report: "Why do you hate America?"

Yet another reason I like you.

[Criptfeind]

Let's admit it, that is not a hard question at all.

It is because they are paid to do so.

[SalmonGod]

Allowing unrestricted child labor is probably the only way large businesses are going to focus on job creation in America.

[Truean]

Allowing unrestricted child labor is probably the only way large businesses are going to focus on job creation in America.

O there are jobs.... Pay on the other hand....

[ECrownofFire]

On the ideological side, I'd say if a kid WANTS to work, let him. But on the practical side...

[Truean]

On the ideological side, I'd say if a kid WANTS to work, let him. But on the practical side...

I... eh.... I'm divided here, really. I truly am.

On the one hand, the kid shouldn't work for two primary reasons. 1.) They should be in school or something learning as much as they possibly can so they can have a better life. 2.) Let's face it, sometimes kids, especially younger ones, just don't make the best decisions, because they can't really get the long term costs. Dropping out of high school anyone...?

On the other hand, "or something," above suggests work could be that "or something." I really would not mind a real apprenticeship program teaching kids valuable, marketable skills in a trade or profession. Part of me thinks that is a lot like school.

I don't know what the answer is.

[ECrownofFire]

I think an apprenticeship kind of thing could work out well. Have the kids work part-time learning job skills, then part-time general education?

[Criptfeind]

I think if a KID wants to work then something is wrong, more likely then not the system has failed.

Older teenagers (16+ or so) wanting to work would be okay I would think.

I think an apprenticeship kind of thing could work out well. Have the kids work part-time learning job skills, then part-time general education?

Also known a college?

Well. Some colleges.

[Duke 2.0]

 The answer is that there could be a valuable institution providing cheap labor and education to youths on practical skills needed in the workforce.

 This all depends on parents, businesses and the government not all screwing it up. Or even not having one screw up.

 Bluh, it would probably get horribly abused.

[SalmonGod]

Allowing unrestricted child labor is probably the only way large businesses are going to focus on job creation in America.

O there are jobs.... Pay on the other hand....

That's the thing... they want it as cheap as possible... you don't get any cheaper than offshore child labor... that's what the American labor force is directly competing with.

I talked to one guy at Occupy Indy who claims to have worked as a personal assistant to a corporate executive on Wall Street, and quit when they started asking him to organize retrofitting a personal yacht into a floating child labor camp.

[Truean]

I think an apprenticeship kind of thing could work out well. Have the kids work part-time learning job skills, then part-time general education?

I.... I want to say that's reasonable. My reservation is that I was labeled the stupid kid in grade, and middle school, and they really tried to funnel me into a program like that. A letter was sent home to my mother saying they were afraid I was retarded (that was really in the letter). I was also told I would never get past algebra I. An advanced economics degree and a law degree later.... I was just shy, scared, bullied, and had a speech impediment (a lisp actually, which I no longer do). I just refused to do a single thing they told me about going into a program like that; I was going to college no matter what they said....

If you could somehow make it so it didn't detract from their general education and future prospects that would help reassure me ... for whatever that may be worth.

I think if a KID wants to work then something is wrong, more likely then not the system has failed.

Older teenagers (16+ or so) wanting to work would be okay I would think.

I think an apprenticeship kind of thing could work out well. Have the kids work part-time learning job skills, then part-time general education?

Also known a college?

Well. Some colleges.

I've never seen a college or law school really prepare someone for work. YMMV.

The answer is that there could be a valuable institution providing cheap labor and education to youths on practical skills needed in the workforce.

 This all depends on parents, businesses and the government not all screwing it up. Or even not having one screw up.

 Bluh, it would probably get horribly abused.

Yeah, it's the horrible abuse I'm worried about.... Foresight is only as far as you can peer into the past. The view isn't good from where I'm looking.

Allowing unrestricted child labor is probably the only way large businesses are going to focus on job creation in America.

O there are jobs.... Pay on the other hand....

That's the thing... they want it as cheap as possible... you don't get any cheaper than offshore child labor... that's what the American labor force is directly competing with.

I talked to one guy at Occupy Indy who claims to have worked as a personal assistant to a corporate executive on Wall Street, and quit when they started asking him to organize retrofitting a personal yacht into a floating child labor camp.

Wouldn't doubt it. Businesses are insanely short sighted and contradictory.

They all want "customers." They love that and the more money from them, the better.
They all want "employees." They love that and the less money to them the better.

Employees... are... customers.... If not your own employees, then someone else's.... How are customers supposed to pay lots of money while being paid the absolute minimum?

[Criptfeind]

They also want competitors to suck and die.

[GlyphGryph]

I think if a KID wants to work then something is wrong

This is not true - work can be meaningful, enjoyable, and a lot of value to a persons life. There are plenty of kids who would want to work if they thought it would make a real difference - if it would help their families, or their communities, or simply because they see their parents or other role models working and want to do what they do, especially if they earn appreciation in the process. And maybe they enjoy saving and buying things with their own money, should they earn it - or maybe the work they want to do has other direct personal benefits, making it a means to an end.

Sure, they usually don't want to work reliably, but the yearning to do something productive and meaningful is a deep rooted in humanity, even in children. This is something school does its best to kill, in my experience, because you'll "work" endlessly for nothing at all (as far as a kid can see), lest you face repercussions.

[scriver]

Allowing unrestricted child labor is probably the only way large businesses are going to focus on job creation in America.

O there are jobs.... Pay on the other hand....

It's too late for me to write a long post right now, but if I can still remember it in the morning I'll write a post on work and pay and what the arsehole liberals are up to in Sweden right now. I've wanted to do it for months, since early summer basically, I just never got around to doing it.

[Truean]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/rick-perry-signs-controversial-anti-gay-marriage-pledge-160701631.html

I just.... I can't say anything nice about Rick Perry.... Not a thing.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Among other things, signers "solemnly vow" to uphold the legal definition of marriage as between one man and one woman, remain faithful to their spouses and appoint "faithful constitutionalists" to the federal bench.

The pledge also calls on signers to back a federal marriage amendment to the Constitution and roll back what the group believes are "anti-marriage" provisions in divorce, tax and welfare laws. Signers also vow to reject Islamic sharia law and to oppose pornography.