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[MonkeyHead]

Many schools in the UK now operate bathroom areas that are gender neutral. Large open areas for sinks, closed lavatory stalls lining them, no urinals. Initially these were designed make them easier to police by removing the closed areas where bullying and assalts took place, along with other unsavoury persuits that shouldnt be going on in school toliets such as drinking, drugs, smoking and sex. From what I have seen in schools operating this system, they are remarkably effective in achieving thier aims. As it turns out they are remarkably cost effectve in terms of maintenance and cleaning (boys dont take much care of toilets unless the girls are watching). Would such a system be more freindly for all gender orientations or worse?

[GlyphGryph]

Doesn't that completely void the point of having them (saving space) though?

Since they need to be standing room only, they can be much smaller, and they don't bother with doors, they just restrict likely angles of view or whatever.

[Truean]

There's a big difference between a nazi jew-star or gay-triangle and a hypothetical "certification of transness", that also would be volontary to carry, you can show people so they don't freak out when an apparant man steps into the womens' toilet. Just like a certificate of handicappedness is not meant to single people out but to let them park in special spots.

I don't want that to be necessary either, but hey, you have to realize the difference between the nazi system and what Truean said.

Unfortunately there really are "vingettes," or documentation that you are trans and transitioning. It's part of what they make you do when following the medical guidelines.

Apart from the medical documentation? With who and to what purpose?

Consider it a license then. You can if you have it and you can't if you don't. When and if confronted present it and problem solved. It doesn't have to be on display necessarily. I don't like it either but find me a better way....

I don't know about unisex bathrooms. Ideally, yes. All private rooms. It wouldn't really be that terribly expensive to do. However, I don't think that's going to happen, do you? Moreover, people are incredibly immature, and ... come on... aren't they?

Edit: And... that's what happens when I wander off to research something. Come back to how many replies? I'm glad the transgender thing seems to have gotten the thread moving though.

[JoshuaFH]

It's more efficient to have two unisex bathroom though. In my uni, I often witness long lines of girls waiting while the men toilet got free stalls.

The thing about Unisex restrooms though is that they have capacity for one person at a time, since that's kind of the point that the one person goes in and they lock the door behind them. The Gender Discriminatory bathrooms remove the need for the lock, so they're often swing door style. That's how I've always seen it done.

So two unisex bathrooms would actually be startlingly inefficient, since the line that would ordinarily be in front of the lady's room is now divided between the two unisex bathrooms. Those lines made even larger by the men that are now standing in line with them.

So what I'm thinking is that, while it may not be the most socially friendly setup, the most practical configuration would be 1 lady's room and 2 unisex bathrooms with urinals.

[GlyphGryph]

The thing about Unisex restrooms though is that they have capacity for one person at a time, since that's kind of the point that the one person goes in and they lock the door behind them. The Gender Discriminatory bathrooms remove the need for the lock, so they're often swing door style. That's how I've always seen it done.

I've never seen a bathroom stall without a lock on it. Where do you live that this is a thing?
I have seen multi-stall unisex bathrooms, though.

So two unisex bathrooms would actually be startlingly inefficient, since the line that would ordinarily be in front of the lady's room is now divided between the two unisex bathrooms. Those lines made even larger by the men that are now standing in line with them.

You... don't actually understand how this works do you? Efficiency in this case would be represented by a reduction in the amount of time toilets are spent unused at peak demand periods. Thus, two unisex bathrooms would both see constant use until the line is gone (optimal efficiency), while the current situation involves the mens room often sitting idle. Understand?

[Il Palazzo]

What has the forum come to? GlyphGryph accusing JoshuaFH of not knowing how the toilets work!
Outrageous! Scandalous! Amusing!

[JoshuaFH]

The thing about Unisex restrooms though is that they have capacity for one person at a time, since that's kind of the point that the one person goes in and they lock the door behind them. The Gender Discriminatory bathrooms remove the need for the lock, so they're often swing door style. That's how I've always seen it done.

I've never seen a bathroom stall without a lock on it. Where do you live that this is a thing?
I have seen multi-stall unisex bathrooms, though.

There's such a thing as multi-stall unisex bathrooms? Must be my amazing lack of culture hitting me again. What I was referring to were single occupant unisex bathrooms. Where it's a room, not a stall, that locks from the inside, that has a toilet and a urinal inside. I've never seen a unisex bathroom differ from this design, but I guess I learn something new everyday.

So two unisex bathrooms would actually be startlingly inefficient, since the line that would ordinarily be in front of the lady's room is now divided between the two unisex bathrooms. Those lines made even larger by the men that are now standing in line with them.

You... don't actually understand how this works do you? Efficiency in this case would be represented by a reduction in the amount of time toilets are spent unused at peak demand periods. Thus, two unisex bathrooms would both see constant use until the line is gone (optimal efficiency), while the current situation involves the mens room often sitting idle. Understand?

This doesn't actually seem like a great metric to measure by. If efficiency = constant use, then I just plain don't know the correct word to refer to a setup where all people are processed as fast as humanly possible.

What has the forum come to? GlyphGryph accusing JoshuaFH of not knowing how the toilets work!
Outrageous! Scandalous! Amusing!

I know, right?

[Andir]

The thing about Unisex restrooms though is that they have capacity for one person at a time, since that's kind of the point that the one person goes in and they lock the door behind them. The Gender Discriminatory bathrooms remove the need for the lock, so they're often swing door style. That's how I've always seen it done.

I've never seen a bathroom stall without a lock on it. Where do you live that this is a thing?
I have seen multi-stall unisex bathrooms, though.

I think there's a communication/region(?) breakdown...

Here in the US, you have restrooms with usually unlocked doors (push/handle style, no latch).  Upon entering this room, toilets have their own privacy panels with slide latching doors.  Urinals are mostly setup with privacy panels between them.

The exception to this rule is the single occupant restrooms which have a locking door.

[GlyphGryph]

This doesn't actually seem like a great metric to measure by. If efficiency = constant use, then I just plain don't know the correct word to refer to a setup where all people are processed as fast as humanly possible.

Since the amount of time it takes a user to use a given toilet can not be increased (well, within the bounds of our conversation), efficiency becomes a property of number of available toilets and the level of use they experience. The only way to increase efficiency is to add more toilets, or to increase the rate of use of the toilets that exist (if there is waste).

With split bathrooms, the waste for one bathroom is likely high, since you can have a line out the door for one while the other remains unoccupied. This reduces efficiency.

So two unisex bathrooms would actually be startlingly inefficient, since the line that would ordinarily be in front of the lady's room is now divided between the two unisex bathrooms.

This statement makes absolutely no sense in that context. You are claiming that reducing the average wait time would somehow reduce efficiency - how, exactly? Maybe I just don't understand the argument that you made here.

Now, there is an argument to be made that requiring a unisex bathroom would reduce efficiency at times when the male and female bathrooms are both at max load, since urinals are more space efficient and thus more of them can be fit into the same area. If you adopt a urinal trough design, this gain in efficiency is greatly increased, obviously. But this is a special case situation, and could be better served by splitting into two bathrooms on a "urinals only bathroom" and a "stall only bathroom" to better meet demand.

[Virex]

There's also the unspoken assumption that everyone would be OK with using unisex bathrooms. Seeing the general maturity of the male populace in some places I could imagine women being somewhat opposed to having to share a bathroom with them...

[JoshuaFH]

There really has been a communication error Glyph. Let's start over, just so I don't have to resort to the madness that is the point by point response. This is what I was trying to say:

Step 0: I initially have no knowledge of multi-stall unisex bathrooms, only American bathroom configurations, and even then, only those present in Michigan.
1. Acknowledgement that lady's rooms are frequently under greater load than male restrooms.
2. Acknowledgement that Men's restrooms receive significantly lighter use.
3. Acknowledgement in the existence single occupant unisex bathrooms.
4. Problem: lines at the female restroom.
5. Idea: Config of 1 F and 2 Uni w/ urinals.

My reasoning was that lady's would use the multi-stall lady's room as normal. Men would use the Unisex bathrooms as though they were the new men's room. Should there ever be a line at the lady's room, the line 'spills over' to the unisex bathrooms, spreading the load over all three.

Of course, if you just use multi-stall unisex bathrooms, then obviously that's the better route all other things being equal. I'm not sure how American audiences would take to those though, but that's out of my purview.

[RedKing]

Oh where is Vector and her mighty progressive math powers when we need her??

[Sheb]

Virex, why would they feel bad about having men walking outside while they're doing their business inside a locked stall?

[RedKing]

Virex, why would they feel bad about having men walking outside while they're doing their business inside a locked stall?

Dude, *I* don't even like having other men walking around outside.

[scriver]

Edit: And... that's what happens when I wander off to research something. Come back to how many replies? I'm glad the transgender thing seems to have gotten the thread moving though.

But dear lord, where did it take us?