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[Andir]

Just like a certificate of handicappedness is not meant to single people out but to let them park in special spots.

I sometimes think those are handed out a bit too freely...  I can't count the number of times I've seen people step out of their vehicle and walk unhindered into a store.

[Sheb]

Andir, my dad got one of those and a severed leg. He can usually walk normally, but from time to time (once a year or so) he get some kind of infection or something to his leg which mean he cannot use his prosthesis and is bound to crutches/wheelchair. Even when he has his legs, walking long distances with groceries isn't easy.

So yeah, he try to leave the parking spot to "true" disabled people (especially if there's only one left) but he quite often is accosted by people that mistake it for a non-disabled person.


Also, in Thailand, which is much more tolerant of trans than the West (Still not perfect mind you), a school had a perfectly sensible solution to Truean's problem.

[kaijyuu]

Just like a certificate of handicappedness is not meant to single people out but to let them park in special spots.

I sometimes think those are handed out a bit too freely...  I can't count the number of times I've seen people step out of their vehicle and walk unhindered into a store.

Yeah they do. My mother has one and abuses the hell out of it. I'm still not sure why she got one; she had a kidney transplant and has a bad heart, but she can still walk just fine and everything (just don't expect her to be able to run more than 10 feet).


Re: Trans people getting singled out. Initially I had nothing to add except "yep" to this conversation, but then I saw this linked in the WTF thread: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/oneal-ron-morris-accused-of-injecting--patient%27s-butt-with-cement,-super-glue,-fix-a-flat-and-oil

There's a discussion about it going on in the WTF thread, but one line stood out to me that's appropriate for this thread.

The suspect — who police say was born a man and identifies as a woman —

Why is this worth mention? Like, at all? Yeah that "doctor" is messed up but I can't think of a reason to mention their being trans. At best they're just sensationalizing to idiots who think being trans is weird; at worst they're demonizing trans individuals by associating them with this crazy person.

[RedKing]

Just like a certificate of handicappedness is not meant to single people out but to let them park in special spots.

I sometimes think those are handed out a bit too freely...  I can't count the number of times I've seen people step out of their vehicle and walk unhindered into a store.

Abuse of a privilege by some isn't good grounds for revoking the privilege, IMHO.

It's because they're issued for a six-month period. If you have an acute injury or condition that impairs your mobility for only a short while, you still qualify. It's up to the individual's own conscience to stop using it after they've recovered. My wife got one in the last couple of months of pregnancy with our 2nd child, because it was seriously becoming a problem to walk. We continued to use it for a month or so after the birth because it was March and we didn't want an infant out in the cold any longer than necessary. But after that, we turned it in.
But issuing for shorter periods is a major burden to people with long-term disabilities. The solution? People need to quit being selfish dicks.

[scriver]

Virex, I don't want to derail the thread over an aside, so let's just cut that discussion short here.

Also, in Thailand, which is much more tolerant of trans than the West (Still not perfect mind you), a school had a perfectly sensible solution to Truean's problem.

My high school (as well as all other high schools in town as far as I know, and every other schools I've gone to for that matter) had one too - unisex toilets.

[G-Flex]

Just like a certificate of handicappedness is not meant to single people out but to let them park in special spots.

I sometimes think those are handed out a bit too freely...  I can't count the number of times I've seen people step out of their vehicle and walk unhindered into a store.

Abuse of a privilege by some isn't good grounds for revoking the privilege, IMHO.

Why does being able to walk mean that a person isn't disabled, exactly? Should we really be judging people we don't know and see for ten seconds in the parking lot as "abusive" just because they don't appear, at first glance, to be hindered by anything? Not every "disabled" person is in a wheelchair.

[Andir]

Just like a certificate of handicappedness is not meant to single people out but to let them park in special spots.

I sometimes think those are handed out a bit too freely...  I can't count the number of times I've seen people step out of their vehicle and walk unhindered into a store.

Abuse of a privilege by some isn't good grounds for revoking the privilege, IMHO.

Why does being able to walk mean that a person isn't disabled, exactly? Should we really be judging people we don't know and see for ten seconds in the parking lot as "abusive" just because they don't appear, at first glance, to be hindered by anything? Not every "disabled" person is in a wheelchair.

Well, logically, there's a reason to get a handicap permit for your car and that's to enable you to park closer to the door because you have a hard time walking from further out.

What other purpose would you need to park closer?

[G-Flex]

They may be having difficulties, but ones that aren't noticeable at first glance in the parking lot by people who don't even know them. Or, they might have trouble walking longer distances but not shorter ones (e.g. really bad asthma). Or, maybe they have more trouble some days than others. My point is that you don't know the situation and shouldn't be judging a person as "not really handicapped" based on a single instance of an extremely cursory observation of them walking into a store.

[GlyphGryph]

Scriver makes a good point. I've honestly never understood not having unisex bathrooms. I understands it even less when its actually one-person-per-bathroom deals that are still sex segregated. Wth is up with that?

[shadenight123]

Scriver makes a good point. I've honestly never understood not having unisex bathrooms. I understands it even less when its actually one-person-per-bathroom deals that are still sex segregated. Wth is up with that?

quantity of people serviced.
a man bathroom can have urinatories all together with wcs.
while, i believe, (never been in one) female bathrooms have wcs but certainly not urinatories.
so, having 12 urinatories on a wall and 6 wcs on the other effectively makes you able to have 16 man "serviced" at a time.
whereas on a female bath, you'd need/have only wcs.
so, random number of customer appears.
on a different sex bathroom, you serve "18 men" and "12 females" (hypothesis is that a wc occupies two urinatory stands)
unisex bathrooms wouldn't be able to have urinatories. unless, of course, you wish to battle moral decency.
so, it would be a total of 12 wcs, closed stands, against 18+12=30.
people go to the wc for need/wash hands, usually bars have you order something before or after.
i believe it's a thing of space optimization.
if every female had no problems in using "urinatories" standing, there would certainly be urinatory stands, and unisex. for the simple reason it would save space, removing the 6 wcs and placing 12 other urinatories. reducing the number to 24, but still more apt than reducing it to just 12.
...i actually made a post concerning bathroom and this...
...
i feel ashamed.

[GlyphGryph]

Pfff, we're not even like those other countries that just have pee troughs, most of our bathrooms already pretty much HAVE stall for their urinals. I don't think it would be that big a deal. And unless the bathrooms are both operating at max capacity for much of the time, you'd have efficiency savings from not having unused stalls.

[Andir]

It really boils down to layout.  You can still include urinals in most layouts and still service people who would be using the stalls.  Even if you took out one stall and replaced it with one urinal you'd be able to accommodate a lot of traffic.  (Not to mention, you now have two restrooms that can cover the traffic.  Even more bonus points if you have restrooms backing each other because you can remove part of a wall, one door and open both sides while being able to put in another sink where the old door was.)

Side note: This is a weird topic.

[shadenight123]

well, it's not my hobby to look at bar's bathrooms during break hours, but from my past experience in crowded places like a university, there can be lines of 13-15 people at a time during "high tide" the more the better.
i believe that's really all there is.

and no, since the idea of having unisex bathrooms isn't to then double them, but to free a room for storage or something else.
to use it for unisex, too, is the same as leaving male and female bathrooms. since you just "get directed" in one or in the other.

[Sheb]

It's more efficient to have two unisex bathroom though. In my uni, I often witness long lines of girls waiting while the men toilet got free stalls.

[Leafsnail]

Pfff, we're not even like those other countries that just have pee troughs, most of our bathrooms already pretty much HAVE stall for their urinals.

Doesn't that completely void the point of having them (saving space) though?