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Author Topic: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread  (Read 873417 times)

Realmfighter

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #6405 on: October 19, 2011, 10:11:43 pm »

I'm ever more and more disgusted with conservative extremism in America.  It's to the point that I fantasize about punching smug-faced fundamentalists in the face, which hadn't been a regular thing with me since high school.  Then I remind myself that such a response is pretty extremist in itself, and it's less likely I'll ever see sanity in our culture again if I fail to keep myself vigilantly grounded.... sigh....

I personally can empathize with Cthulhu's cultists after reading about some of it, and I'm not even American.
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Angel Of Death

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #6406 on: October 19, 2011, 10:21:01 pm »

Everyone needs to read this.
I am speechless. How could such stupidity even be thought of?
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kaijyuu

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #6407 on: October 19, 2011, 10:24:24 pm »

I'd be anti that even if it had nothing to do with abortion.

Censoring what can be said over the internet? Hell no.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #6408 on: October 19, 2011, 10:32:11 pm »

Censoring what can be said over the internet? Hell no.
Unfortunately, there is not yet judicial precedent for Freedom of Speech applying to the internet. There probably will be eventually, but the unfortunate part is that it will probably require Congress passing a internet censorship law so horrible that the Supreme Court overturns it.

And if the Supreme Court doesn't overturn it, then, we are fucked.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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ECrownofFire

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #6409 on: October 20, 2011, 12:33:36 am »

Censoring what can be said over the internet? Hell no.
Unfortunately, there is not yet judicial precedent for Freedom of Speech applying to the internet. There probably will be eventually, but the unfortunate part is that it will probably require Congress passing a internet censorship law so horrible that the Supreme Court overturns it.

And if the Supreme Court doesn't overturn it, then, we are fucked.
I think it'd be best to get a clause into the first amendment about it applying to all mediums of speech before that becomes necessary.
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G-Flex

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #6410 on: October 20, 2011, 12:46:57 am »

I think it'd be best to get a clause into the first amendment about it applying to all mediums of speech before that becomes necessary.

Why should that clause be remotely necessary? If Congress can't make a law abridging the right to free speech, then it can't; any medium where you can would have to be an exception to the rule.
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ECrownofFire

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #6411 on: October 20, 2011, 01:20:00 am »

I think it'd be best to get a clause into the first amendment about it applying to all mediums of speech before that becomes necessary.

Why should that clause be remotely necessary? If Congress can't make a law abridging the right to free speech, then it can't; any medium where you can would have to be an exception to the rule.
Hasn't stopped the federal law against "obscenity" from existing.
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sluissa

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #6412 on: October 20, 2011, 12:55:02 pm »

You know, if you took the first amendment at its exact wording. It protects speech. I.E. words that are spoken orally. It also protects the press. Either the press as a news reporting organization, or even more literally as a machine to print words on paper. Also the right of people to peacefully assemble. There's also stuff about freedom of religion which we will set aside for the moment as it doesn't apply to my argument.

You have the spoken word, and the written word as set down by a machine onto paper.

It could potentially be argued that the first amendment doesn't protect people who communicate electronically or through methods other than direct face to face speech and mechanically printed letters.

Now, I know this is probably not the intention of the original writers, and that there is judicial precedent to add in there, but if you get some judge who decides to ignore precedent(happens more often than it probably should) and go simply by the exact wording of the amendment(some of them pride themselves on this), there could be trouble.

By some arguments, the only freedom you have is to peacefully meet another person face to face and speak with them.

This is a bit of hyperbole of course. I never expect it to get this far. But the first amendment doesn't protect every method of communication without question.
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Virex

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #6413 on: October 20, 2011, 01:06:26 pm »

Also note that if you go by that definition, body language is not protected by the first amendment, so while saying [insert random curseword here] can't be forbidden, raising your middle finger can...
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palsch

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #6414 on: October 20, 2011, 01:12:00 pm »

Everyone needs to read this.
Just want to try to work this out, because the reporting around this is confusing.

There isn't a permalink to the amendment available yet. The actual text proposed is;
Quote
Sec. __. None of the funds made available by this Act may be used for mifepristone, commonly known as RU-486.
This matches the text of an amendment from Steve King in the House.

The justification given by both was to stop Planned Parenthood using teleconferencing in prescribing the drug, but there is no explicit block on discussing abortion via the internet or any similar behaviour. I'm not even sure that there was a penny going from this bill (and this amendment only applies to this bill) towards RU-486. It seems more likely this is pure grandstanding about abortion to make headlines and that the pro-choice side are buying into it as well.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #6415 on: October 20, 2011, 03:25:23 pm »

I think it'd be best to get a clause into the first amendment about it applying to all mediums of speech before that becomes necessary.

Why should that clause be remotely necessary? If Congress can't make a law abridging the right to free speech, then it can't; any medium where you can would have to be an exception to the rule.
Hasn't stopped the federal law against "obscenity" from existing.
It has, however, stopped obscenity law from being easy to use in court. Libel, Slander, Obscenity, they're all technically on the books, but getting a jury (or even a judge, a lot of the time) to convict on them is short of impossible.
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Truean

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #6416 on: October 20, 2011, 08:12:40 pm »

[This isn't legal advice. Don't try using this as legal advice.... Really, that's just foolish in all kinds of ways. You'll miss something (from this or another area of law) and it'll blow up in your face. I won't be there to contain or redirect the explosion.]

On your own yes, with an attorney, it's possible. It is, however, fact intensive. You're looking at full discovery process with depositions, interrogatories ("rogs"), requests for documents, etc. It also depends what you plead in the complaint as it is actually far wider than "A. Defamation." The following is an incredibly oversimplified outline. Each subpart has subparts of its own that literally fills a legal encyclopedia volume or two. Understatement, it's complex. I can do it, but it's a pain, and like all litigation, a gamble:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Everyone needs to read this.

That's just a sloppy waste of taxpayer's time for writing the law. It's also a waste of a judge's time to slap the crap out of it and kill it as the unconstitutional thing it is....

A person should only be allowed to be a member of a legislature if they know what the crap the law is. Either they should have to be a lawyer or have a damn good one they have to run anything by before they say something stupid like Arizona and Alabama did with the immigration thing (Absolutely violates Federalism) or now this crazy law about killing free speech when the speech is about abortion (It will die as a content based restriction or be still born...). I'm getting rather sick of having people who waste time trying to make laws that have 0 chance of being constitutional. We have very serious problems and this crap just wastes time we can't afford to blow.... You should know something about law before you make it. You should also know something about baking before you make cookies, or at least you should if you expect me to try them....

As for the first amendment, it is enormously complicated to the point I couldn't explain it here fully if I tried. Screw it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And once again, I have hit the 40,000 character limit on a post and I'm not even done! Free exercise clause, freedom of association, etc. Politicians should know the law before they try to change it....
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 08:43:35 pm by Truean »
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Vector

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« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 05:16:29 pm by Vector »
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G-Flex

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #6418 on: October 21, 2011, 05:34:14 pm »

Native Americans and the trouble with Twilight

To be fair here, Twilight doesn't treat humans very favorably or realistically. Seriously, I probably get a worse impression of American white people by reading that than I do of Native Americans.
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kaijyuu

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #6419 on: October 21, 2011, 05:36:09 pm »

Rape redefined.  Finally.
Someone versed in legal jargon will have to answer this: Does it also include forcing to penetrate? The way I read it, it seems men can only be victims of rape if they get something stuck in their bum. I'm hoping I'm reading it wrong.

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Something to make everyone here pissed off, possibly
Mildly perturbed, yeah. I don't know if the "glass elevator" thing has a lick of truth to it, but if it does, that blogger's an ass. Not only does it reek of "other people have it worse so your problem doesn't matter," it also ignores the obvious negative effects this would have on women. Vacating men from "feminine" jobs does two things:
1) increases demand for women in stereotypical "women's" jobs and further pushing them into "women's roles."
2) gives unfair advantage to men for promotion in these fields, obviously disadvantaging women looking to move up.

There IS an "equal and opposite" reaction when it comes to sexism, but not in the way that blogger's thinking. If one gender is given an advantage, the other is given an equal disadvantage. This goes for everything from courtesies to jobs to whatever. Women often get the short end of the stick is the problem, especially when it comes to issues of money and power. Men get the short end of the stick in other things, it's just that those things tend to have less "practical" consequences.

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New calendar puts men in the poses women are usually photographed in
I laughed.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.
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