Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Luke_Prowler]

I'm saying that taking way corporate taxes and minimal wage is not going to help at all.

[Reelyanoob]

http://news.yahoo.com/federal-judge-blocks-ala-illegal-immigration-law-190442307.html

And it seems people haven't learned from when Arizona tried to do the same thing.

Basic principles of federalism, some powers for the states, others for the federal government. Immigration is for the federal government. If you are a state and you keep trying to make laws about it, then the bench will keep tossing them out as unconstitutional on separation of powers groups/federalism, and because you states still haven't learned a thing.... [sigh]

It seems to me (disregarding that it's unconstitutional) that giving out special "non-citizen" birth certificates is the beginning of the road to an apartheid type system.

e.g. what happens when these US-born "non-citizens" have their own children? Do they get "non-citizen" birth certificates too, ad infinitum to the end of time?

There will always be individuals who cannot be deported, as they have no other nation which accepts them as citizens, so the special laws being looked at will inevitably lead to an us/them situation with two tiers (citizens and 'residents').

Once you've got that in place, it would be a small jump to stripping felons of their citizenship, so you'd have a growing rate of the non-citizen residents, felons already lose the vote in many states, so this would not be a big jump. The new "resident" class would have no voting rights etc.

I'm not exaggerating at all when I say a law like that is the first step towards being able to implement a form of fascism where only a minority are true "citizens" with constitutional protections.

[ECrownofFire]

I'm saying that taking way corporate taxes and minimal wage is not going to help at all.

Corporations just push their expenses from taxes onto their consumers, and it discourages corporations from the US. Minimum wage discourages the cheap labor that China's beating our ass in.

[Vector]

It happens a lot less though.

And there you go.  That would be why.

[ECrownofFire]

It happens a lot less though.

And there you go.  That would be why.

So let's have everybody go around wearing thongs then.

[sluissa]

It happens a lot less though.

And there you go.  That would be why.

So let's have everybody go around wearing thongs then.

I'd be all for that.

[Truean]

http://news.yahoo.com/federal-judge-blocks-ala-illegal-immigration-law-190442307.html

And it seems people haven't learned from when Arizona tried to do the same thing.

Basic principles of federalism, some powers for the states, others for the federal government. Immigration is for the federal government. If you are a state and you keep trying to make laws about it, then the bench will keep tossing them out as unconstitutional on separation of powers groups/federalism, and because you states still haven't learned a thing.... [sigh]

It seems to me (disregarding that it's unconstitutional) that giving out special "non-citizen" birth certificates is the beginning of the road to an apartheid type system.

e.g. what happens when these US-born "non-citizens" have their own children? Do they get "non-citizen" birth certificates too, ad infinitum to the end of time?

There will always be individuals who cannot be deported, as they have no other nation which accepts them as citizens, so the special laws being looked at will inevitably lead to an us/them situation with two tiers (citizens and 'residents').

Once you've got that in place, it would be a small jump to stripping felons of their citizenship, so you'd have a growing rate of the non-citizen residents, felons already lose the vote in many states, so this would not be a big jump. The new "resident" class would have no voting rights etc.

I'm not exaggerating at all when I say a law like that is the first step towards being able to implement a form of fascism where only a minority are true "citizens" with constitutional protections.

Pretty much and this is why Republicans want to repeal the 14th amendment, "strict constitutionalism:"
http://teapartynationalism.com/the-blogbri-news-updates-and-morei/item/135-tea-party-leaders-attack-constitution ~ "I want the 14th Amendment repealed. - David DeGerolamo, NC Freedom"

http://www.progressive.org/mplove081110.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/01/ftn/main6733905.shtml
http://gawker.com/5607617/john-boehner-on-repeal-of-14th-amendment-its-worth-considering

Except some of them just seem to want illegal immigrants to go away and think this will do it or discourage them from coming here. Yeah, that's not gonna work.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Pretty much and this is why Republicans want to repeal the 14th amendment, "strict constitutionalism:"
http://teapartynationalism.com/the-blogbri-news-updates-and-morei/item/135-tea-party-leaders-attack-constitution ~ "I want the 14th Amendment repealed. - David DeGerolamo, NC Freedom"

http://www.progressive.org/mplove081110.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/01/ftn/main6733905.shtml
http://gawker.com/5607617/john-boehner-on-repeal-of-14th-amendment-its-worth-considering

It'll never happen. That's extreme even by far-right standards, not anything that could even be passed through Congress, much less be ratified by 33 states.

In other news:

Warren Jeffs, convicted child rapist and president of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, has fallen into a coma from critical dehydration and may not survive.

10-year old denied water for five days as punishment for stealing guitar strings from his brother and wetting the bed, dies as a result.

FEMA disaster fund nearly spent, FEMA now prohibited from funding long-term reconstruction until fund increases.

Iranian HIV/AIDS doctor Arash Alaei released from prison.

Thoughts?

[Nadaka]

I'm saying that taking way corporate taxes and minimal wage is not going to help at all.

Corporations just push their expenses from taxes onto their consumers, and it discourages corporations from the US. Minimum wage discourages the cheap labor that China's beating our ass in.

Minimum wage also discourages [multiple expletives deleted] mass starvation.

[Bauglir]

I think you're missing the point. He's not endorsed it as an acceptable course of action, just as one that solves the problem at hand (regardless of how many problems it creates). I'm not sure what the point is, unless it's to point out the problems in shortsighted attempts at trickle-down economics, however.

[GlyphGryph]

His original proposal was quite clearly tongue in cheek. But really, if your goal is to stop outsourcing, that's the most effective way to do it.

Maybe his "point" is that you should stop and consider if that's actually the problem you're trying to solve?

[Nadaka]

The us actually offers a tax break for moving jobs over seas, getting rid of that would be the tiniest of a start.

Offer tax breaks for creating local middle income jobs.

Tax imports.

Remove the offshoring tax breaks.

Creating a class of people at risk of starvation no matter how hard they work is not an option. And that is exactly what eliminating the minimum wage will do.

[sonerohi]

Sweet idea: Have the army seize the assets of people like the Kardashians.

[Truean]

Tax breaks, as they currently stand, do not necessarily create jobs IN THE US. If we want to give tax breaks to create jobs in the US, then we need to add one simple requirement: attach the W-2 or other employment papers proving you hired someone, then you can have your tax break.

It's really simple, but we don't wanna do it.

[ECrownofFire]

Creating a class of people at risk of starvation no matter how hard they work is not an option. And that is exactly what eliminating the minimum wage will do.

Unions should keep the wages at acceptable wages. Add in mandatory unionization or something if you really have to.

But what of the "no corporate taxes" thing? Nobody's really said anything about that.

His original proposal was quite clearly tongue in cheek. But really, if your goal is to stop outsourcing, that's the most effective way to do it.

Maybe his "point" is that you should stop and consider if that's actually the problem you're trying to solve?

Nah, I'm mostly serious about it. Outsourcing is probably the biggest killer of the US job market anyway.

Tax breaks, as they currently stand, do not necessarily create jobs IN THE US. If we want to give tax breaks to create jobs in the US, then we need to add one simple requirement: attach the W-2 or other employment papers proving you hired someone, then you can have your tax break.

It's really simple, but we don't wanna do it.

Tax corporations for each person they DON'T hire, it's brilliant!