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[Phmcw]

Yeah, in my mind, rape is getting sexual interaction by force , blackmail or when the victim is unconscious. Lack of consent alone is not enough ; it must be expressed.

@truean : I don't get it : it's one confusing sentence, but I guess she then said something else when he would not stop. Did she?

[Rose]

Now we have the usual can of worms.

Did she not want him to keep going? No, she didn't.

But does that necessarily mean that he had malicious intent? No, that doesn't either.

The concept of rape scares the living shit out of me

And here's the issue. Rape brings a highly emotional reaction in most people, which makes it hard to be impartial.

Did the girl offer any further protest after "Don't *pant* stop"?

It's all well and good to demand that he ask for clarification if he's confused, but that assumes that he was confused in the first place. I know I've been wrong about something often enough without feeling any confusion about it.

[Truean]

Simply, yes, highly charged emotional hot button issue. No doubt; complete agreement with you there.

That said,

Would it have really killed him to ask if she liked it during the act, especially the first time? That's really all it would've taken to clear the whole dreadful mess up. If you're doing... [ahem] "that" with someone, I hope you can talk to them openly by "that" point. Why place this duty on him instead of her? Without being too vulgar, he has more physical power in this situation....

Incidentally, the girl in question repeatedly said it over and over, though this, again, did not clarify the ambiguity.

[Nadaka]

I would much rather talk about how absolutely horrible rick perry is. And gay marriage, and fun stuff like that.

[Truean]

I would much rather talk about how absolutely horrible rick perry is. And gay marriage, and fun stuff like that.

I agree. Here's my post link.

[GlyphGryph]

If you're doing... [ahem] "that" with someone, I hope you can talk to them openly by "that" point. Why place this duty on him instead of her?

This assumption really really really doesn't have any grounding in reality, to be honest.

But yeah, I'm ready to move on.

[KaelGotDwarves]

Fox New's Andy Levy makes an interesting point about "Why the fuck is society so easily accepting Chris Brown's shenanigans after he beat up a woman?"

[Truean]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/05/rick-perry-college-transcript_n_919357.html
So, he doesn't like undergraduate colleges because he didn't do well in them

"He rarely earned anything above a C in his courses -- earning a C in U.S. History, a D in Shakespeare, and a D in the principles of economics. Perry got a C in gym."

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/08/hot-rick-perry-threatens-ben-bernanke.html
And because he knows so much about economics: He's threatening the head of the federal reserve with words like "almost treasonous." Treason is a capital offense so this implies a violent response is in order.... [sigh] He's basically speaking as a thug and even Karl Rove, a Bush Adviser, is pretty much saying that about him http://www.whotv.com/news/nationworld/la-pn-rick-perry-treason-react-20110816,0,6285842.story

http://news.yahoo.com/rick-roll-perry-backs-teaching-creationism-public-schools-211637043.html
Creationism....

http://governor.state.tx.us/priorities/economy/tax_regulatory_reform/tort_reform/
Tort Reform means you can't sue easily if you get hurt cause only people and not, say, giant tobacco companies file frivolous lawsuits http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Tobacco-companies-file-apf-2819873500.html?x=0&.v=3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#Social_Security
He doesn't like social security and thinks it is unconstitutional . He published a book to this effect IN FALL OF 2010 but promptly backpedaled once he realized older Americans wouldn't vote for him if he didn't. That's right, it takes him less than a year to change critical views he felt strongly enough to write a freaking book about: "Flip flopper."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#Environmental_issues
Doesn't go for global warming as man made....

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/15/governor-says-texans-want-secede-union-probably-wont/
He doesn't expressly say Texas should leave the United States, but he doesn't mind his supporters saying "Secede!" and when asked to clarify his statement, he doesn't dismiss it....

So between the above and this link to my last post about him:

He's basically George W. Bush who expressly wants to change the constitution.

[Kay12]

Now that we're discussing rape... Slutwalks.

I get the basic idea behind Slutwalks - a rape victim is always a victim, no matter how (s)he was dressed. And provocative dressing should not be a justification to rape someone.

But... uh, I think some people are taking it too far... A police officer here in Finland warned that women should avoid using alcohol excessively, especially when with strangers, because drunk women are easier targets for rapists. While that didn't create such massive response as the "dressing like a slut" comment that started the entire Slutwalk deal, some people at the local Slutwalk wanted the officer reprimanded for that statement for reasons I don't understand.

I mean... the way I've understood it, drunken people are easier targets for almost any crime. Stealing from a drunken person is easier, as is tricking them with fraud. Violence is easier as well - mugging for "fun and profit", assault, even murder... sexual violence, too, I would believe, but apparently, it's no longer politically correct to say that.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The thing is, there needs to be a clear distinction between telling people not to do something because it makes them rape targets and thus "asking for it", and providing advice that will lessen the chance that someone will become the target of a rapist.

[Kay12]

The thing is, there needs to be a clear distinction between telling people not to do something because it makes them rape targets and thus "asking for it", and providing advice that will lessen the chance that someone will become the target of a rapist.

Yep. Nothing justifies rape, that's true, but still... it seems like telling people to be careful is going to be swamped by excessive political correctness.

[Vector]

Surprisingly enough, I believe that women, as a group, generally have gotten the idea by now.

[Kay12]

Surprising enough, I think they don't make it clear enough how dangerous alcohol is in excess... last Summer I was meeting my friends downtown and some drunken ~16 year old girl whom I had never seen wanted to join us. We turned her down, for we were sober and looked civilized - we didn't want a loud pissis to hang around us. Luckily, she had friends who appeared sober to escort her home - I can only wonder what could've happened to her if she offered to join any group of men if her friends weren't there to stop her.

[Mindmaker]

Seen those situations often enough, or heard about them.
Luckily, I have decent enough friends, that escort said person home, or at least call her a taxi.

Well, I'm curious how colege night-life will look like.
Not that I plan to participate heavily in it, but friends will surely persuade me every now and then, so at least I'll get a sober glimpse of the situation.

[Interus]

Maybe, but still, stories like Andir's creep me the *$^% out. Plus, with the percentage women that get raped, it can't be the fault of a small group of creepy evil guys, so who's to say I'm not one of the "normal" rapists without knowing it beforehand?
Who's to say I don't suddenly turn abusive under stress when I'm in a relation? What guarantees do I have that I'm better than the average male? I'd best just keep my distance at all times...

I'm first just stating that I remain very, very skeptical of the whole one in four thing. That's an extremely high percentage for a specific crime, that should be easily seen in one's social microcosm. It isn't, and that's a red flag abnormality.

Secondly, you're paranoid as hell over this, which in and of itself lends me to believe you aren't a secret rapist. People who do that sort of thing aren't normal, and they probably don't think of themselves as "not rapists". Given the type of people who commit violent crimes like this, they probably don't think about it at all.

Virex, you seem to be under the impression that you lack a sense of self control.

A lot of people aren't going to bring it up in casual conversation, especially if they don't want to be treated like rape victims or have convinced themselves it wasn't rape.  As for social microcosms, I would say you'd be hard pressed to find too many people that I've considered friends in the past.  I'm thinking about 12, including the 3 from work.  At least, in real life.  I suppose if you count the one girl I talk to online who might trust me with that information, I know maybe 5 or 6 women.  2 of them have been raped.  One definitely(she was 8!  I don't know how she convinced herself to tell me it happened at all) and the other debatably(I'm not sure where the line between rape and sexual assault is).  For two more, well I only talk to them at work, and we aren't super close.  The online girl trusts me while still having the internet as a shield, and the worst I've heard from her is that another girl stalked her for awhile.  But anecdotal evidence is hardly a statistic.

Virex, if you want to avoid that kind of thing, and I'm sure you do, just ask first.  And don't pressure.  If you're worried you might rape somebody, then you're probably not the kind of person who's gonna jump out of the bushes in the middle of the night.  You need to be more concerned with the woman you're on a date with who's not sure exactly what she wants.  You should go just as far as she's comfortable, and stop there, for the sake of both of you.  Probably easier said than done, but all I can do from here is say.