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Author Topic: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread  (Read 876914 times)

Siquo

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #3795 on: August 17, 2011, 04:06:11 pm »

It's a philosophy that breeds a pattern of dominance and dependence.
Well, afaik (or have read) it's neither a philosophy, nor demeaning. But your book may have been different.
It depends on how you read it, I guess. It also tells women to shut the fuck up when their man asks them to. This has a very good reason: If I'm already annoyed, talking to me more will make it worse. It's more of a "manual of the other sex" thing, and it contained quite a few passages that I had to underline for her.

Now keep in mind that my SO has read maybe 90% of US self-help books. Well, maybe not that many but she's got a bookcase full of them. This is one of the very few books that actually made a little sense or told me something new. (I loathessss themmm)
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Vector

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #3796 on: August 17, 2011, 04:15:21 pm »

And my ex-boyfriend implied that he would have beat the shit out of me if I had refused to leave his space when he ordered me to.

Easier when we're obedient, right?
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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GlyphGryph

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #3797 on: August 17, 2011, 04:25:17 pm »

See, now, the problem is that it isn't a "manual of the other sex", it's a "manual of behaviours statistically (if not incredibly) likely to be relevant to a situation in which you deal with a member of the opposite sex".

And frankly, anyone who needs one of those books for someone they actually know and have spent time with is doing something wrong. And if you see the book as a revelation, and use it as anything but starting point to actually learn more about your partner, you're likely to continue doing things nearly as wrong as before.

It has a few good commentaries based on cultural more and precepts (which obviously only apply with any consistency when dealing with those who follow those precepts), a whole bunch of stuff that works for anyone, but people are generally too self-concerned to consider the other persons point of view without prompting, and finally a whole bunch of stuff that is just randomly hit or miss (but you are more likely to remember the hits than the misses).

Its most useful to a person interested in understanding the first bit - since most people are, more or less, chock full of bits of our modern culture, there's certainly value in it for those who simply don't get that men and women are treated differently by our culture, are assaulted with widely varying expectations, and that we are products of our environment. I know girls who've read it simply so they could have somewhere to start understanding what other girls were thinking, screw the guys.

Its a culture manual, not a gender manual, is the thing.
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MonkeyHead

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #3798 on: August 17, 2011, 04:28:58 pm »

Yea, it would totally lose its context in Saudi Arabia...

Truean

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #3799 on: August 17, 2011, 05:04:52 pm »

Truean, what I referred to by "lifestyle choice" was the choice to hide it whilst in work - the individual in question was single, in thier 50's and had no family - it later emerged that they had been living as a female in all areas of thier life save for thier work life, which is understandable. For the record, the individual in question had no desire to undergo any gender reallignment treatment, and was still attracted to women.

Oh, and no, thier performance didnt improve post disclosure. If anything, it deteriorated, they developed a "work to role" attitude and a confrontational nature (and was involved in one fist fight of thier own starting), despite being given 100% acceptance from all that worked with them - they were not the first transgendered person to work here so its not as if we had no expereince of the circumstances in question. During this whole saga we had to fire another lab tech for budget reasons - incidentally he was homosexual, and went through a seperate tribunal regarding his dismissal which ruled it was unfair as it was not on grounds of incompetence, but thats another story...

Sorry about the "trump card" reference. It was made in an ironic fashion without considering its ability to cause offence.

It's all good. No worries.

Yeah, ignoring the notion that "it's a choice to hide it" (in most circumstances), here's where we get into a larger issue. Though I reiterate the fact that I don't have firsthand knowledge and will never take a case without investigation. Anyhow.... You're from the UK and I'm completely ignorant about how employment law works there, and this needs to be said because I'm outside the scope of what I know. I can provide you no learned opinion on the matter. I give you the benefit of the doubt on your intention not to cause offense. Cognizance counts....

That said, if you'd like my opinion.... [Someone asked me how to write an opening paragraph, especially for an analytical essay, to that person, please note the bracket tags. This is the simplified example I promised you; ask what questions you will about it in PM. Note the organizational expanded outline format I talked about. This is the content of your first paragraph for an essay and how that relates to the rest of the essay. Organized chapter books traditionally may feature their opening sentences linked to their chapters and their chapter's opening sentences linked to paragraphs within. Finally, the individual paragraph sentences may be featured as subpoints or bulletpoints under the topic sentence of their individual paragraph. At least that is my way, do what your English teacher requires. It is she, not I who decides your grades. Often you'll find the correct answer is wrong and you must find the "accepted" answer and give it, no matter how wrong....]

[Topic Paragraph, serving as an overview/outline, The colors correspond to how ideas link up and relate to the rest of the essay. Red with red; blue with blue, etc, etc. ]:
[Opening Sent] It is a complex, multipart thing, very rarely done: properly dealing with merit in employment and lack or termination thereof. [Optional qualifier] Doling out judgment should be done sparingly and judiciously and this essay does not presume to cover this topic exhaustively. [1st P] The first consideration should be, but sadly is often not, merit, ability and qualification. [2nd P] The second qualification is past, present, and if applicable, anticipated performance. [3rd P] Third, to approach being proper, and dare I say, Just, one should take considerations of equity or fairness into consideration. [4th P] Finally, we consider the overarching considerations of an example, [5th P] facts of that example application, [6th P] and the analysis of it, which here we fail to conclusively reach for want of evidence and the other side's story.

[Note, if you have a lot of paragraphs, or are writing a book, you can split paragraph topic introduction in one sentence like I did above with [4th P], [5th P], and [6th P]. You can introduce a number of related paragraphs by using a list....]

[Note how the first paragraph corresponds to "1st P" but is not an exact mirror of it, as are the others See then how I explain each of the sub parts of, merit, ability and qualifications?]
[1st Pb] Merit, ability and qualification are foremost in a proper determination. These qualities, like many others are difficult to measure, and Resumes' cannot accurately gauge a job applicant, but they are the best indicator we have initially. Merit and ability are productivity balanced against quality. Another less tangible aspect of merit is the effort one invests. Employees who give an honest, hard effort should be rewarded for their work ethic and the presumed improvement of their abilities this investment will reap.

[2nd Pb] Performance, past present and future, is ultimately why a person is hired. This is arithmetic, what they produce and how they produce it. This is the most objective portion of merit measurement we have, though it too can be wrong, if the measure observes the wrong thing, or ignores something effecting quality.... Moreover, it is here that behavioral issues are addressed, via praise or punishment. It is just as important "how" and "what" one produces as much as "how much...."

[3rd Pb] Finally, to approach being proper, and dare I say, Just, one should take considerations of equity or fairness into consideration. These are factors effecting job performance simply beyond the person and their control. The performance of others and outside actors and negatively, or for that matter positively effect the performance of the individual on their job. These are not properly considered in the analysis, as they are not caused by the person, for good or ill. Doing otherwise rewards them not on merit but luck.

[4th Pb] A situation with general concerns arises when a person of minority status' job performance is reviewed. One must take care in this situation both to avoid legal repercussions and to avoid the moral pitfalls those legal repercussions remedy. Minority status individuals have historically been disadvantaged and this has attracted the attention of the courts. The judge is placed in the classic problematic situation: every single person in the courtroom claims to be not liable. The judge knows some of them are lying, but not which ones. Thus, between this classic problem and the history of disadvantage all those before the court are subjected to a heightened burden of proof and some of them will not be able to meet it. Formerly, the court erred on the side of the company accused of bigotry, often wrongfully, now it errs on the side of the terminated employee....

[Use of the starting phrase "In the Present Case," Lets the informed reader know this is a paragraph on the facts of the present case. A busy judge will often skim for the "In the present case," at the beginning of a paragraph, and skip to it if he or she wants your take on the facts.]

[5th Pb] In the present case," "MonkeyHead" presents an individual case whereby the applicant--a preoperative transsexual-- was under job review [Central Question] "Monkeyhead" raises the question of if this status relevantly and justly influences this decision. Facts are sparse, but it appears a physical altercation was allegedly started by the employee in question, a serious allegation and concern if true. [Insert other facts, which you gain by research or investigation].

[Use of the starting word "Here," Lets the informed reader know this is a paragraph is the analysis of the present case. A busy judge will often skim for the "Here," at the beginning of a paragraph, and skip to it if he or she wants your analysis. Also see how I pulled the other paragraphs into the rule section?]

[6th Pb] [Conclusion] "Here, though it is difficult to reach a conclusion without both sides of the facts, and all sides deserve an opportunity to be heard, the employee's behavior may warrant termination absent a valid defense."  [Rule] In reaching this, merit, performance, equity, general concerns, and individual facts must be considered. [Qualifier] It should be noted that we lack specifics required to reach a proper conclusion and this is preliminary, subject to revision. [Analysis]We lack any information about this person's qualifications and only a summary, negative report on merit from "Monkeyhead." Evidence of performance is also limited though apparently negative, and incidents of violence in the workplace, a serious concern, must be explained by employee. Equity concerns are not addressed. General concerns apply given the history of discrimination against minority individuals, which this person is. Though these may be mitigated if employer can show they do not apply. Finally, the individual facts are not known specifically, though generally, employer alleges employee's attitude is detrimental to the workplace culminating in that employee's starting of a fist fight. Again employee must be allowed the opportunity to explain this serious concern. [Conclusion]No proper conclusion can be reached upon the facts given, though serious concerns about violence, if accurate and unexplained, need to be dealt with.


[Here's hoping that gives you your requested example about how to put what where in an argumentative, analytic essay and that it did not subject you to too much color overload. See how you can make an outline and expand it into an essay? :) I'll be checking my PM box and happy to respond to your questions. :) In this instance, I will be happy to help you with, but again, not do, your paper. Though I'm sure that last sentence shall not be a concern. Don't be afraid to post here if you like, no one will be mean to you for what you are]

Can minority status in hiring and employment be abused: yes. Is it? I suspect not a fraction so often as some would claim. There's a reason consideration is given for these minority status factors, that reason is that historically there is too much precedent of discrimination to ignore. Thus the scale should be tipped somewhat to remedy the situation when a suspect classification is mentioned. This is why the US Supreme Court heightens scrutiny of a law if one of these classifications is involved.

That's just my two cents and delivery on a promise for a writing example.... :)
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 05:39:41 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

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Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Willfor

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #3800 on: August 17, 2011, 05:29:49 pm »

-snip-
To illustrate the importance of knowing how to construct paragraphs, I was once given a compliment by -- and stood out to -- an employer based on the fact that I was able to construct a paragraph on a subject in a way that was both structured according to proper English rules, and effectively communicated what I was trying to say. This would have been more of a compliment had it not been a call centre job, where my ability to construct paragraphs effectively was essentially useless. However, it is still a factor in showing that you can properly communicate.

Keep on trying to learn them, whoever you are! It can be important to know.
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Truean

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #3801 on: August 17, 2011, 05:31:49 pm »

-snip-
To illustrate the importance of knowing how to construct paragraphs, I was once given a compliment by -- and stood out to -- an employer based on the fact that I was able to construct a paragraph on a subject in a way that was both structured according to proper English rules, and effectively communicated what I was trying to say. This would have been more of a compliment had it not been a call centre job, where my ability to construct paragraphs effectively was essentially useless. However, it is still a factor in showing that you can properly communicate.

Keep on trying to learn them, whoever you are! It can be important to know.

I'd argue verbal thought organization is just as important as written, but yeah. I sense what you're saying. :). See, there's one nice person; I assure you there are others, flareups aside. No pressure though. Do only what you are comfortable with.

And my ex-boyfriend implied that he would have beat the shit out of me if I had refused to leave his space when he ordered me to.

Easier when we're obedient, right?
That... is god damn, inexcusably horrible. :(
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 06:48:53 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Vector

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #3802 on: August 17, 2011, 08:20:46 pm »

It's all right.  Just another penny under the bridge.

(It was in reference to his nearly throwing his brother out the window due to refusing to leave and my asking if he'd do the same to me)
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

ChairmanPoo

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #3803 on: August 17, 2011, 08:25:12 pm »

Hmm, that hardly improves things. He seems a violent guy overall. I can understand the need for solitude at times, but I dont think defenestrating blood-kin or paramours is an acceptable way to go about this.
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Vector

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #3804 on: August 17, 2011, 08:30:28 pm »

On the other hand, it didn't actually happen :D

At the same time as part of me goes, "The things that happened to me actually matter and people should hear about them," part of me realizes that my experiences make me inherently less romantically desirable, haha.

Kind of sad how that works, huh?
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

RedKing

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #3805 on: August 17, 2011, 08:37:12 pm »

I don't see how B follows from A. I dated a nymphomaniac who claimed to be demon-possessed (and on at least a couple of occasions showed evidence of such). Bad scene all around there, and mucho bad decisions on my part to even go there.

Yet, I don't think my prior failed relationships make me less attractive. One, it means I've learned important lessons of how NOT to screw things up and two, it provides oft-needed perspective of "y'know, things could be MUCH worse".
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Vector

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #3806 on: August 17, 2011, 08:38:24 pm »

I meant in terms of enormous amounts of stupid emotional baggage.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Lysabild

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #3807 on: August 17, 2011, 08:40:38 pm »

I meant in terms of enormous amounts of stupid emotional baggage.

Most people have this, why should it make you of all people less attractive when you have so much to make up for it?
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Vector

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #3808 on: August 17, 2011, 08:42:17 pm »

. . .

That was another thing he told me.  You know--that rationally speaking, he was probably the only person who'd find me attractive.  That was before he decided I was evil and hell-bent on his destruction, and before he informed me that he'd adopted me as a fixer-upper project but I just was too intractable a problem for anyone to fix.

Thank you for reminding me of that.  Sometimes I forget.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Lysabild

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Re: Vector's Chill and Relaxed Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #3809 on: August 17, 2011, 08:45:07 pm »

. . .

That was another thing he told me.  You know--that rationally speaking, he was probably the only person who'd find me attractive.

Thank you for reminding me of that.  Sometimes I forget.

Only thing that can make past relationships unattractive is if you keep talking about them, a partner don't want to feel less important than your past.

Living in the past is never attractive, hence why all my partners leave me within a year ^^'
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