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[Kay12]

And... so? Does that make any male likely to be a sexual predator, enough so to be considered a brute rapist?

As I said, carefulness is one thing, being a dickhead is another. I understand perfectly if a woman doesn't want to take a drink I offer her or want me to take her home. But the discrimination I talked about has nothing to do with sexual violence, as far as I know. It has something to do with their attitude - anything I say is likely to be wrong, and if I consider them to be wrong, it's because I'm male and "male gender will never understand" or "your gender's behind <evil thing X>".

That means that there is a culture of rape and misogyny in America. Your gender is behind evil things. Your gender is a intricate part of that culture who's criticism you're mocking with vague straw man argument. I'm not saying all men are brute rapists, I'm saying that you have a despicable culture and you are defending it by marginalizing feminists as vapid, discriminatory idiots.

There is something fucking wrong with the world. And if you can't see that, I relly don't know what to say.

So, you're honestly saying that you support discrimination, sexism, and hatred between the sexes? And what is the "culture" you call despicable? My culture? Or "male culture"?

EDIT: Also note - I do not consider all feminists to be idiots, for I am one myself. Read my post about it a few pages back. I consider the feminists who discriminate against males to be rude hypocrites.

[Realmfighter]

So, you're honestly saying that you support discrimination, sexism, and hatred between the sexes?

Where the hell are you getting this from? Are you saying that making reference to any of the amazing injustices that get posted frequently in this thread is discriminatory?

And what is the "culture" you call despicable? My culture? Or "male culture"?

Your culture, my culture, Western culture! Supporting gender inequality for hundreds of years!

[Kay12]

So, you're honestly saying that you support discrimination, sexism, and hatred between the sexes?

Where the hell are you getting this from? Are you saying that making reference to any of the amazing injustices that get posted frequently in this thread is discriminatory?

Why, that's exactly what you're saying. My gender is behind evil things, and if I'm defending myself against discrimination, I'm defending a culture of evil. Also, labelling the entire Western culture as supporting gender inequality is unfounded.

And what is the "culture" you call despicable? My culture? Or "male culture"?

Your culture, my culture, Western culture! Supporting gender inequality for hundreds of years!

Western culture? Rape is against our culture. That's why it's a punishable offense. You'll also note that rape is much more common in Africa, although arguably that's because of Western culture as well. Gender discrimination is also illegal in our culture, at least nominally. Back to what started this discussion: I'm just pissed off that people who claim to be in favor of gender equality reserve themselves the right to practice gender discrimination themselves. I'm not being taken seriously by some feminists because I'm male. Some chauvinists don't take women seriously. And there seem to be people who think women should be allowed to discriminate against men - again, I see that as sexist.

[Siquo]

Your culture, my culture, Western culture! Supporting gender inequality for hundreds of years!

I call troll. Stop that.

[Jackrabbit]

Just, completely out of context and not being involved in this argument at all, that looks completely valid. Western culture has supported gender inequality for hundreds of years.

Also, even if he is being dumb, that doesn't mean he's being a troll. That word's bandied about so much its meaning is starting to become a bit muddled.

[Bauglir]

There is something fucking wrong with the world. And if you can't see that, I relly don't know what to say.

And is it wrong because there are men, or is it wrong because there are people who do wrong things, who happen to also be men?

[Siquo]

Just, completely out of context and not being involved in this argument at all, that looks completely valid. Western culture has supported gender inequality for hundreds of years.

In that case, Realmfighter, please name me another culture that has instituted women's suffrage, and made discrimination against race and religion illegal.
So yeah, either dumb or troll, but I deleted the "or really stupid" from my post because ad hominems are not really constructive either.

[Kay12]

On the other hand, we can consider Western culture to be slanted towards men. But even then, what could I, as a single person, do? Nothing I don't do already. I already do my best to treat male and female people equally. Then again, it's really hard to be tolerant when there's a group of people who don't tolerate you...

Eventually, I think anti-male feminism is about as effective in preventing gender inequality as a white supremacy gang is in preventing racial hatred.

[Jackrabbit]

Anti-male sounds like an extreme point of view, and there's nothing good about that. Anti-particular males, I can see, but anti-male, well, I don't think anyone here's advocating that.

[Siquo]

You haven't been reading the last page?
Virex has been defending anti-male behaviour, and Realm just topped that by a tenfold, although I'm still waiting for a "I was being sarcastic didn't you guys see that?" kind of reply from him.

[Realmfighter]

Western culture? Rape is against our culture. That's why it's a punishable offense.

Before I respond to everything else, one in six. Just sayin'.

I call troll. Stop that.

Yes sir. (In light of other shit, I will stop making witty, slight inane one liners sir yes sir)

Why, that's exactly what you're saying. My gender is behind evil things, and if I'm defending myself against discrimination, I'm defending a culture of evil. Also, labelling the entire Western culture as supporting gender inequality is unfounded.

So, saying that Western Civilization doesn't have the best record in terms of gender equality is discrimination?

Western culture? Rape is against our culture. That's why it's a punishable offense. You'll also note that rape is much more common in Africa, although arguably that's because of Western culture as well. Gender discrimination is also illegal in our culture, at least nominally. Back to what started this discussion: I'm just pissed off that people who claim to be in favor of gender equality reserve themselves the right to practice gender discrimination themselves. I'm not being taken seriously by some feminists because I'm male. Some chauvinists don't take women seriously. And there seem to be people who think women should be allowed to discriminate against men - again, I see that as sexist.

Africa-Just because we're not the worst doesn't mean we're good
Gender Discrimination-Your entire argument has been that (Some) Feminists Discriminate against you.
Feminist- I only consider people feminist if they're arguing for gender equality.

And is it wrong because there are men, or is it wrong because there are people who do wrong things, who happen to also be men?

It's wrong because there are men and women who accept wrongness as right

In that case, Realmfighter, please name me another culture that has instituted women's suffrage, and made discrimination against race and religion illegal.
So yeah, either dumb or troll, but I deleted the "or really stupid" from my post because ad hominems are not really constructive either.

I was saying it support gender inequality. Just because there's worse doesn't make us perfect.

On the other hand, we can consider Western culture to be slanted towards men. But even then, what could I, as a single person, do?

Debate on the internet?

Eventually, I think anti-male feminism is about as effective in preventing gender inequality as a white supremacy gang is in preventing racial hatred.

Anti-male sounds like an extreme point of view, and there's nothing good about that. Anti-particular males, I can see, but anti-male, well, I don't think anyone here's advocating that.

Jackrabbit seems to have wrapped that last point up nicely! now if you could all stop posting....

You haven't been reading the last page?
Virex has been defending anti-male behaviour, and Realm just topped that by a tenfold, although I'm still waiting for a "I was being sarcastic didn't you guys see that?" kind of reply from him.

So that's what the insane levels of victimization was about!

[Kay12]

Anti-male sounds like an extreme point of view, and there's nothing good about that. Anti-particular males, I can see, but anti-male, well, I don't think anyone here's advocating that.

Um, actually, the entire debate started with me lamenting about feminism containing two subsets I don't like, one of them being the anti-male, and Virex responded that he has no problem with anti-male discrimination. So, not necessarily "advocating", but at least "approval" is present in this thread.

And Realmfighter... the "one in six" argument is flawed. First, I haven't seen any statistical data about it yet, so you could just be making it up. Secondly, it has no bearing to culture whatsoever - we have relatively many drunken stabbings here in Finland but they are not culturally acceptable. So try harder.

And yes, labeling people and cultures evil is discrimination.

[Jackrabbit]

Western culture? Rape is against our culture. That's why it's a punishable offense.

Before I respond to everything else, one in six. Just sayin'.

I... don't get what you're saying. Are you saying because it's so common, it is part of our culture? Because if so, that's fucking ridiculous. Rape is completely socially unacceptable, nobody advocates it except rapists.

If not I don't get why you brought it up.

[Siquo]

Your gender is behind evil things.

So that's what the insane levels of victimization was about!

Yeah, weird, huh? 

[Realmfighter]

I... don't get what you're saying. Are you saying because it's so common, it is part of our culture? Because if so, that's fucking ridiculous. Rape is completely socially unacceptable, nobody advocates it except rapists.

If not I don't get why you brought it up.

The point is if rape was completely unacceptable then there wouldn't be those statistics, there would only be scattered cases of rape quickly cracked down upon because the only ones who would rape would be those who were truly sick and unable to stop themselves or unable to care.

Your gender is behind evil things.

Yeah, weird, huh? 

Well to be fair, my broad generalization of your X does evil things works with just about anything