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[Vector]

I would argue that being portrayed as a thuggish, powerful warrior is very different from being portrayed as someone else's property and sexual toy.

For example, one of those people is portrayed as autonomous and possessing of agency, rather than merely being an object.

[Lysabild]

How is a guy whose sole purpose is to kill evil guys any less of an object than a woman whose sole purpose is to please good guys?

[G-Flex]

Because you don't understand the difference between a "subject" and an "object" here.

The guy in this case is the subject: He's the one doing things to others, and using things and people for his own goals, however shallow those goals may be. The woman is an object, existing to serve the needs of the guy and have things done to her.

[Lysabild]

Because you don't understand the difference between a "subject" and an "object" here.

The guy in this case is the subject: He's the one doing things to others, and using things and people for his own goals, however shallow those goals may be. The woman is an object, existing to serve the needs of the guy and have things done to her.

You presume too much here, Most women I've been with were certainly doing more things to me than I did to them. The fact that a woman uses sex doesn't make her an object, and nowhere is it specified that the man is using things nor people for his own goals.

[Vector]

And... in... video games?

[Taricus]

I've always preferred my badasses female, Though it always irks me when they're not properly equipped (AKA: proper armour...)

And I can think of several that come to mind from various video games.

[Lysabild]

And... in... video games?

Again, I am not experiencing men being any better made or better portrayed, unless you think sexual depections are negative by default. Personally I just wish there were more manly sexual depections.


Anyway, I just said you should prove that well made posetively and realistically portrayed men are in such abundance since it's such a disaster that theres not many posetively and realistically portrayed women.

Personally I'd say the fact lies with the gaming industry not caring for anything but stereotypes and the much loved "Rule of cool".

As a sidenote, as a kid I sometimes wished I was a female, not because I felt like one, but because then I would've been treated like I wanted to be treated, so I really don't follow many of the arguements so strongly supported in here.
Edit: Actually, haven't changed much, I still wish I could have the female role in society.

[Kay12]

I don't really get the discussion about sexism in fiction. Not that I don't think it's a problem, but... the truth is, by looking hard enough, you'll find sexism in nearly anything. And someone always does look that hard.

Also, having the woman be a seductress isn't always that bad, if you ask me. For example, Commandos 2 features Lips, the Russian commando who uses her feminine beauty as means of distracting and undermining the enemies. She's more than that though, as she can still knock out enemies and even use a sniper rifle. That's not really sexist if you ask me - anyone who's a member of a covert military unit with such capabilities for distracting enemies would be fool to not use them.

On the other hand, perhaps the sexism lies in the fact that the nazi soldiers are unable to stop staring at her... as if all men were such perverts.

[Willfor]

Minor nitpick: staring at breasts is not perverted, it is greatly impolite. Still not encouraged behavior, but perversion implies that it is wrong in a deviant sense. I will now cease to pick the nits off of you. Which is also generally considered impolite in modern social circles.

[The Doctor]

Unless they are ape social-circles. In which case it's highly polite to groom your guests.

[Kay12]

Minor nitpick: staring at breasts is not perverted, it is greatly impolite. Still not encouraged behavior, but perversion implies that it is wrong in a deviant sense. I will now cease to pick the nits off of you. Which is also generally considered impolite in modern social circles.

Actually not specifically breasts, I think, as the "distraction" mainly involved Lips using lipstick. What makes it perverted is that the Germans are simply unable to stop staring at her beauty.

When I was in the army, I wouldn't even imagine staring at women during patrol duty! On the other hand, I can but imagine the deprivation and loneliness experienced by the poor German soldiers...

[kaijyuu]

Concerning sexism in media:

The fact of the matter is both genders are unrealistically portrayed. The reason women are shown with huge boobs and men with bulging muscles is because they're trying to be portrayed as attractive. There's no hidden agenda of objectifying women or anything like that; the writers are just following No Guy Wants an Amazon. For men, a man who isn't able to take charge and "be a man" is considered weak, wimpy, and above all, unattractive. These are all things intended to try to make you like the characters, and nothing more.

Yeah there are numerous double standards going on here, and it'd be great if we all grew up and abolished them. I definitely do not buy that women get the short end of the stick, though, at least not until shit like this is changed.

[Kay12]

Actually, you're right that there are several double standards concerning men, especially when it comes to violence. There was a widely publicized incident where a man being physically abused by her wife called the police, and got the response "You getting your ass kicked by a woman?" The policeman apologized after having a bit too much publicity, of course. Actually, it's a good sign that people realize that the attitudes concerning violence are off.

Then again... I was watching the television and saw an ad that made me think. I don't recall what was being advertized, but the ad went as follows... a man entered the house really quietly, with a tipsy drunken expression on his face. He removed his shoes and started sneaking inside the house. Then he tripped over some kind of a rope trap that left him hanging upside-down by his leg, the lights turned on and a woman (presumably his wife) watched him with a murderous expression on her face.

Reverse the genders of that and the result would not be shown on TV.

[MonkeyHead]

Beyonce Knowles' song "If I Was A Boy" is a good example too - for 4 mins she brings up pretty much all the stereotypical bad points of "guys". I dont recall outrage at this, but should a male pop artists release 4 mins of tripe that banged out about the stereotypical faults with "girls", people would not like it.

Come to think of it, she has some really unusual messages in her "music" regarding femenism, relationships and so on - "My body is too bootylicious for you" just smacks of wanting to be seen as a sex object, and "If you liked it then you should have put a ring on it" sound like she wants to be someones property...

I think the issue is this: Most guys dont mind thier gender as being represented by overly macho images. Most females do not like thier gender being represented by bimbo ideals. The "Old Spice" advert currently doing the rounds on UK TV insults us both in this regard...

[Virex]

"Hurh I am Macho, Big muscles, I kill things good!" is not any better than "I am blond and have a d-cup!"

Difference is that one is a realistic portrayal of the ambitions of about half the world population and the other one is turning the character into a sex doll...