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[ChairmanPoo]

BTW, I figure this is the right thread for something that happened me recently

A friend of mine (well, more of a friendly acquitance. I tend to get fed up with him when I have to deal with him for long periods of time) has this flatmate who is... disgusting, in pretty much the same ways. I avoid both of them as of late, mostly because I can't stand the flatmate. There were several events, but the one that ended up nauseating me, was when, about two weeks ago, he walked up to me (I was among some people) and, loudly asked me "hey man, I saw you with a girl, yesterday!". "Eh, yes. She's a friend". He came closer, nudged me with the elbow, and commented, once again, loudly "Some lil' slut, huh?". He continued with several more comments on the same lines. I was quite shocked by the guy's lack of minimal behavioral standards.  For what I've heard later, it's not the first time he does something like this, or the worst he has done, either. 
My acquitance is bad enough by himself to make you fed up with him, but it's mostly by a combination of extreme foolishness and his constant scroungery. But his flatmate (aka: for those who TL, DR, the guy in the anecdote above) I actively avoid because I don't want to be seen with someone whom I'm sure will end up in the newspapers someday for molesting an underling.

[Vector]

Edit:  Right now, I feel as though someone is trying to "rape" me into their ideals.

I do not have the words for how angry I am with you right now.


@ChairmanPoo: Yeah, this is the perfect place.  That really sucks =/

[Andir]

I do not have the words for how angry I am with you right now.

Why?  Because I'm being victimized by someone trying to push their ideas on what I should be doing onto me?

[Angle]

Oh please. What, did they send you an email? Did they knock on your door? did they call you during supper? How terrible. You have been so horribly victimized. I am so sorry.

[Vector]

I do not have the words for how angry I am with you right now.

Why?  Because I'm being victimized by someone trying to push their ideas on what I should be doing onto me?

You can leave the thread any time you like.  Poor victim.  You can't defend yourself.  You're being raped by someone speaking out about suffering and intolerance.  How unbearable.

There's an entire world out there where these ideas will never be discussed, and you can go explore it as much as you want, use as many slurs as you want, say anything you want about anyone you want, and no one will stop you.  But this is not the place, and if your goal is to silence the people here and stop them from speaking, I will ask that you go.

[Andir]

So now we get back to hate speech?  I mean, if words can be considered hateful and detrimental to someone... You want me to leave and you tell me I'm the one trying to silence people.

[The Maestro]

My friend tells me to read this thread on some forum I've never heard of, and I'm bored so I'm going to play the opposition.

As someone with a vested interest in not seeing the "opposition" brought down by a debater who may only be in it for the lulz, I'm going to give you the forewarning that "I was only messing with you" is something that is not tolerated in this thread. I'm not saying you have bad intentions, I'm just saying that you generally have to remain in good faith if you want to be taken seriously in debates here. Just don't get yourself knee-deep in it, and then "lolololol" off into the sunset, that's all.

That said, welcome to the forum.

I address this specifically, but I can see other people raise similar questions about my authenticity.

I assure you, trolololol'ing is one of the most miserably boring engagements I can think of.  I tried it, once, and the entire concept is...pedestrian.  It's been done to death.  I have seen it many a-time, and it is without fail a shitty scapegoat for saving face when it turns out the 'troll' has been made an ass.

Well Mr Sockpuppet somebody's friend, possibilities already suggested in this thread include ensuring that people do have a way out of abusive marriages and education in schools that helps prevent children from being railroaded into said marriages.

...I have seen that said by others, but as yet no one has given a solution that has not already been put in place.  Everyone keeps saying how terrible it is, we all seem to agree there; my point is that no one has given a solution that is implementable, besides time.  The problem is that no matter what, no matter how progressive, as Oslo has illustrated recently, nations will always have nutjobs bent on ruining other peoples' lives based on their warped belief system.

Therefore, we run into the Classic argument of free will vs. harm.  It shows up all over, particularly in government and theology, something in which this argument is doubly steeped.  It all boils down to a more fundamental issue: by limiting the harm done by some to some others, we also eliminate the freedom of people to practice without fear of some Greater Power raining down Retribution for Failing to Follow The Rules (I feel like Neal Stephenson right now!).

[Andir]

Well Mr Sockpuppet somebody's friend, possibilities already suggested in this thread include ensuring that people do have a way out of abusive marriages and education in schools that helps prevent children from being railroaded into said marriages.

...I have seen that said by others, but as yet no one has given a solution that has not already been put in place.  Everyone keeps saying how terrible it is, we all seem to agree there; my point is that no one has given a solution that is implementable, besides time.  The problem is that no matter what, no matter how progressive, as Oslo has illustrated recently, nations will always have nutjobs bent on ruining other peoples' lives based on their warped belief system.

Therefore, we run into the Classic argument of free will vs. harm.  It shows up all over, particularly in government and theology, something in which this argument is doubly steeped.  It all boils down to a more fundamental issue: by limiting the harm done by some to some others, we also eliminate the freedom of people to practice without fear of some Greater Power raining down Retribution for Failing to Follow The Rules (I feel like Neal Stephenson right now!).

... and you said it better than I have.  Nobody has offered up a solution besides time.  Sure, you can make people aware, but what do you expect them to do?

[Willfor]

My friend tells me to read this thread on some forum I've never heard of, and I'm bored so I'm going to play the opposition.

As someone with a vested interest in not seeing the "opposition" brought down by a debater who may only be in it for the lulz, I'm going to give you the forewarning that "I was only messing with you" is something that is not tolerated in this thread. I'm not saying you have bad intentions, I'm just saying that you generally have to remain in good faith if you want to be taken seriously in debates here. Just don't get yourself knee-deep in it, and then "lolololol" off into the sunset, that's all.

That said, welcome to the forum.

I address this specifically, but I can see other people raise similar questions about my authenticity.

I assure you, trolololol'ing is one of the most miserably boring engagements I can think of.  I tried it, once, and the entire concept is...pedestrian.  It's been done to death.  I have seen it many a-time, and it is without fail a shitty scapegoat for saving face when it turns out the 'troll' has been made an ass.

Good enough for me. Once again, welcome.

[Angle]

Time for a derail.

How i feel about hate speech:

I think that people should be encouraged to speak up, even if they do have horrible unpleasant opinions. because if they don't speak up, how will we know we have a problem? The best response to hate speech, in my opinion, isn't to tell them to shut up. It's to argue with them, to try and convince them that they are wrong. or at least convince everyone else that they are wrong. Having them shut up just causes the hate to fester. In order to deal with it, we need to have them speak up, and then speak up ourselves. We need to make our voices and opinions heard loud and clear, so that the source of the hate can be overcome.

fakeedit: Ninjas!!!

[The Maestro]

Well Mr Sockpuppet somebody's friend, possibilities already suggested in this thread include ensuring that people do have a way out of abusive marriages and education in schools that helps prevent children from being railroaded into said marriages.

...I have seen that said by others, but as yet no one has given a solution that has not already been put in place.  Everyone keeps saying how terrible it is, we all seem to agree there; my point is that no one has given a solution that is implementable, besides time.  The problem is that no matter what, no matter how progressive, as Oslo has illustrated recently, nations will always have nutjobs bent on ruining other peoples' lives based on their warped belief system.

Therefore, we run into the Classic argument of free will vs. harm.  It shows up all over, particularly in government and theology, something in which this argument is doubly steeped.  It all boils down to a more fundamental issue: by limiting the harm done by some to some others, we also eliminate the freedom of people to practice without fear of some Greater Power raining down Retribution for Failing to Follow The Rules (I feel like Neal Stephenson right now!).

... and you said it better than I have.  Nobody has offered up a solution besides time.  Sure, you can make people aware, but what do you expect them to do?

Well, damn, I can't really entangle myself in that obscenity debate.  I got halfway through a reply on that subject before I realized I really, really would rather not wade through that much vitriol to make an informed observation.

Good enough for me. Once again, welcome.

You can quote me on it if I do try to pull that one.

[Andir]

Time for a derail.

How i feel about hate speech:

I think that people should be encouraged to speak up, even if they do have horrible unpleasant opinions. because if they don't speak up, how will we know we have a problem? The best response to hate speech, in my opinion, isn't to tell them to shut up. It's to argue with them, to try and convince them that they are wrong. or at least convince everyone else that they are wrong. Having them shut up just causes the hate to fester. In order to deal with it, we need to have them speak up, and then speak up ourselves. We need to make our voices and opinions heard loud and clear, so that the source of the hate can be overcome.

fakeedit: Ninjas!!!

/agree

Well, damn, I can't really entangle myself in that obscenity debate.  I got halfway through a reply on that subject before I realized I really, really would rather not wade through that much vitriol to make an informed observation.

There's no need.  You touched on the whole conversation pretty well without being a part of it.

[Nadaka]

My friend tells me to read this thread on some forum I've never heard of, and I'm bored so I'm going to play the opposition.

Pray tell, how would you prevent it?

My options are limited by my ethics and my resources. I cant use violence, except in defense. I can't ban religion. I can't afford to campaign against it or offer much financial support.

I can talk. I can let people know it is out there. I can try to convince people can to change their minds. I can stand up and argue against those who dismiss the problem and blame the victims. If I personally see something wrong I can confront it. I can try to offer emotional support to others who have been victims. I can raise any children I may have to be happy. I can be a better man.

pseudo edit: 21 new replies? really?

[The Maestro]

Time for a derail.

How i feel about hate speech:

I think that people should be encouraged to speak up, even if they do have horrible unpleasant opinions. because if they don't speak up, how will we know we have a problem? The best response to hate speech, in my opinion, isn't to tell them to shut up. It's to argue with them, to try and convince them that they are wrong. or at least convince everyone else that they are wrong. Having them shut up just causes the hate to fester. In order to deal with it, we need to have them speak up, and then speak up ourselves. We need to make our voices and opinions heard loud and clear, so that the source of the hate can be overcome.

fakeedit: Ninjas!!!

I am of two minds on this: yes, that would be nice, maybe it would have prevented those horrendous murders in Norway this last week.  But at the same time, that is exactly what happened in the 60s, and though I would love to say "talk it out, and it will be cool" some people simply lack (even at advanced age) the maturity to discuss things without resorting to violence.  We have a quandary: we want the fringe to speak, but how to do it without hate-speech-inspired violence?  The courts only move so quickly!

My options are limited by my ethics and my resources. I cant use violence, except in defense. I can't ban religion. I can't afford to campaign against it or offer much financial support.

I can talk. I can let people know it is out there. I can try to convince people can to change their minds. I can stand up and argue against those who dismiss the problem and blame the victims. If I personally see something wrong I can confront it. I can try to offer emotional support to others who have been victims. I can raise any children I may have to be happy. I can be a better man.

I think you're on to something, perhaps channeling funding towards outreach groups which actively attempt to help other people.  Totally legal, and it also avoids the quandary of giving government authority (which it invariably abuses) over religious institutions.  Similar to federal funds for Planned Parenthood, if you understand what I mean.

[Phmcw]

Meh, the entirety of the right critics of this "elevatorgate" is that someone should treat that guys for his social awkwardness. Seriously.
There is nothing feminist in this story, just a guy who make a fool of himself and a girl who overgeneralize.

And then plenty of people who do both. Including Dawking and Greta Christina. Seriouly?

Muslima

?
And the tone of his comment.

But the

we're trying to get you laid

As a justification of Greta Christina's good intention was the most sexist thing I've heard toward men.

Sad to see peoples I usually enjoy reading make such fools of themselves.