You know, I just realized that I don't really understand what the philosophical justification Christians are drawing from in their crusade to outlaw abortion. Does the bible mention something about a zygote, embryo or fetus being considered a full-fledged human being? Life begins at conception? I hear that latter term a lot but I don't belief it's in the Bible, is it? Does it just contradict the "be fruitful and multiply" guidance? Do they want to ban it just because it's an icky medical procedure to think about?
I think conceptually it comes from a few directions; yes, the be-fruitful is one. The anti-masturbation thing (Onan, iirc) is also part of it, as that's seen as wasting the seed of life (Nevermind that sperm dies by the millions naturally even without any form of ejaculation); an abortion would be condemned along similar grounds -- and yes, the logical progression of that is that menstruation is a sin (because the woman's not pregnant and is thus wasting a potential life). Which is perfectly in line with the scare-quote "Christian" (note: Jesus,
the man of peace, would bitchslap them, yes) outlook of women as little more than baby making machines, yes. Quick E before nap: And yes, yes, most Christians aren't that bad, but both the church and the holy texts are definitely very strongly patriarchal-in-the-negative-sense.
The sacredness of life -- which I definitely couldn't quote and likely isn't explicitly stated in the biblical text, but is a long term implicit and sometimes explicit (if oft violated) axiom of christian ethical theory -- taken to the standard of
hilarious extreme comes in, too. All life is created by God (Actually
is God, really, but that's something else) and is thus sacred and humankind in all its forms is
particularly sacred (Remember, even though angels were created by God as well, they must bow to humans). To do anything to prevent the spread of that ultimate good can be seen as sin.
Although it still hinges on if there is a soul generated at the moment of conception or not. Is this about original sin? If an unborn embryo dies before being baptized it goes to hell right? So if an zygote has a soul and there is a miscarriage or abortion it goes to hell before it can be born and, then I can see that being something they'd want to avoid, although it happens naturally.
Yeah, original sin isn't really biblical, per se. S'church doctrine, especially catholic, but it's only really there because people still have their head stuck up Augustine's ass (Which, to be fair to Augustine, is a pretty impressive ass. Dude was pretty eloquent.). So can blame Augustine for that, iirc. Either him or Aquinas. Technically the original sin (Of Adam/Eve) was absolved, along with all other sin at the time/in perpetuity by Jesus's sacrifice. Can probably blame hoosface... Dante. Dante, yeah. Divine Comedy dude. For the whole unborn children going to hell thing (First circle, though, which isn't all that bad comparatively.), though he was probably was drawing from something else.
But no, most of it's not directly from biblical text, from what I understand. If there's anything in the bible that specifically states that "Thou shalt not abort thine fetus" I haven't noticed anyone quoting it. If there's anything
specific, though, it's probably in the torah/old testament stuff. Might be something in that huge list of Judaic laws I've forgotten the name of.
I'm not sure how it is hard to understand the prospective at least. I mean, the idea is that these things have souls, and thus killing them is wrong. You don't need a bible to tell you killing things with souls is wrong and you don't even need a bible to know that these things have souls. You just need belief. I don't understand the idea that that is hard to understand.
Nah, that's pretty easy to
understand, but a helluva lot harder to actually accept; you don't need a reason, you just need belief. "And should believe... why, exactly?" That's the response. The concept of soul isn't exactly axiomatic to all belief systems or individuals, after all~
Mont was also asking for philosophical
justification, which that isn't, heh
"Just 'cuz" gets you (in the general sense, not you specifically, cript) hit with the unjustified hammer of great justice in philosophical discussions.
Author
Topic: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread (Read 875820 times)