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[Tellemurius]

DESCRIBE THE ESCALATION OF FORCE AND EXPLAIN THE ROLES
AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF A CONCEALED FIREARM PERMIT
HOLDER IN ESCALATING AND DE-ESCALATING
CONFRONTATIONS.   
1.     Confrontation/threatening presence
2.   Verbal threats
3.  Physical
4.  Less than deadly force
5.   Deadly force

This is Utah's

[Max White]

Just because something is the current law doesn't make it ethical. I don't see what you hope to achieve by telling me how the law currently works in regard to the thing that we would be changing, were we in politics.

[Montague]

The firearm law states you must follow this path before deadly force

1. show threat - brandishing
2. verbal threat - telling the person you are armed and ready
3. physical threat - move in closer to the person, push him/her back with one hand
4. less-than lethal force - this in line of the pepper spray, baton and yes gun wounds, don't tell me gun wounds are lethal, if it takes you more than 30mins to at least hold the wound then you are a idiot
5. lethal force - this is only when you can take the kill shot

even then you can still be charged for criminal acts and sued and whatnot.

Which state is this? It sounds more like police or military 'escalation of force' doctrine then what they train civilians, to my knowledge at least.

(Ninja'd x2)

I was curious and looked it up for Florida, anyways.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

Q. What if I point my handgun at someone but don't use it?

A. Never display a handgun to gain "leverage" in an argument. Threatening someone verbally while possessing a handgun, even licensed, will land you in jail for three years. Even if the gun is broken or you don't have bullets, you will receive the mandatory three-year sentence if convicted. The law does not allow any possibility of getting out of jail early.

[Max White]

Q. What if I point my handgun at someone but don't use it?

A. Never display a handgun to gain "leverage" in an argument. Threatening someone verbally while possessing a handgun, even licensed, will land you in jail for three years. Even if the gun is broken or you don't have bullets, you will receive the mandatory three-year sentence if convicted. The law does not allow any possibility of getting out of jail early.

That seems to be in reference to threatening somebody in an argument, not a self defence situation.

[Montague]

Q. What if I point my handgun at someone but don't use it?

A. Never display a handgun to gain "leverage" in an argument. Threatening someone verbally while possessing a handgun, even licensed, will land you in jail for three years. Even if the gun is broken or you don't have bullets, you will receive the mandatory three-year sentence if convicted. The law does not allow any possibility of getting out of jail early.

That seems to be in reference to threatening somebody in an argument, not a self defence situation.

Yeah, it is and I am messing up this whole internet forum posting thing, but the point is that the legal risk is the same if you can't successfully prove it was a self defense situation.

[Max White]

Better not pull your gun on somebody unless you are sure then! I bet some sort of training to make sure you can keep a level head and not pull a gun for no reason would be really useful for gun owners, eh?

[Tellemurius]

Just because something is the current law doesn't make it ethical. I don't see what you hope to achieve by telling me how the law currently works in regard to the thing that we would be changing, were we in politics.

You also come from another country Max, let alone Australia. We maybe the same people but our cultures are different. I mean fuck you take the gun away we find so many other ways to kill people. Think how most are your murders have a gun involved? Shit you and Britain have stringent gun laws but still are considered worse crime rates than America. Do you see anything working anymore?

[Max White]

Telle, have you been drinking? You sound more slurred than I normally do...

[Tellemurius]

Telle, have you been drinking? You sound more slurred than I normally do...

Its midnight and i have a really bad weekend.

[Frumple]

Also... Britain and Australia with worse crime rates than the states? What? Just going by reported crimes and a cursory search, the US has more than five million more crimes reported than in the UK. Also the highest rate of incarceration of any of the first world countries.

We're not doing too good on the crime front, really, at least compared to some of the other major powers.

Sorry about th'weekend, though.

[Tellemurius]

Also... Britain and Australia with worse crime rates than the states? What? Just going by reported crimes and a cursory search, the US has more than five million more crimes reported than in the UK. Also the highest rate of incarceration of any of the first world countries.

We're not doing too good on the crime front, really, at least compared to some of the other major powers.

Sorry about th'weekend, though.

Its due to the population size, if you really look at it, we don't have much of a dent in the 300 million people living here.

[Max White]

Telle, have you been drinking? You sound more slurred than I normally do...

Its midnight and i have a really bad weekend.

Understandable, it happens to us all. Regardless, do you think pointless internet debates that just go around in circles are the best way to cap that off?

[Tellemurius]

Telle, have you been drinking? You sound more slurred than I normally do...

Its midnight and i have a really bad weekend.

Understandable, it happens to us all. Regardless, do you think pointless internet debates that just go around in circles are the best way to cap that off?

I dunno, rather think of pointless arguments then RL. Look man no matter what we will never get a straight answer for this, i protect my gun rights not because some idiots say my constitution protects it, its because of the value a gun is to my life.

[Max White]

Well ok, if you want to play then we can play, but let's keep it sporting. I like you, after all.

So what value does a gun contribute to your life? The ability to poke holes through things from a long range, what do you need that for?

[Frumple]

Its due to the population size, if you really look at it, we don't have much of a dent in the 300 million people living here.

Yeah, total numbers, but that doesn't help with things like the homicide rate that are tracked per capita; we're about 4x UK's rate, back in '00 (and our homicide rate was higher back in '00). Less than half of Russia's!

We still have the highest per capita incarceration rate of the first world countries. But our prison system's frakked to hell so whatever, I guess. I'll admit it's pretty bad that th'UK has roughly half our crime numbers but something like a 5th the population. 'course, that's only reported crimes, so who knows how bad the actual situation is.

Understandable, it happens to us all. Regardless, do you think pointless internet debates that just go around in circles are the best way to cap that off?

One of the better cures for a headache I've found~