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[MetalSlimeHunt]

As for "lives have, in reality, been saved and home invasions prevented due to in-house gun storage", well yes, I'm sure in a few cases they have been. I'm also willing to say that in most of those cases, escaping through your back door into the night to call the police at a neighbours house would have also saved them, without the need for a gun, and in cases where a family member was mistaken for an intruder and shot would far outweigh times when this was impossible.

If you leave and call the police you'll never see any of your valuables again. I don't know about you all, but if someone tries to rob me I value my livelihood over their life.

[Max White]

So what, you shoot somebody instead? How can you value a tv over human life?
Isn't it cheaper to get insurance than a gun?

[Frumple]

or a break in problem. Neither are an issue.

Um, do you have the numbers on that one? First source I find, here, has a little flash thing showing that Australia has a worse burglary rate than the US. Its apparently sourcing this, though I'm having trouble finding the actual data on that site.

E: This, from the Australia Bureau of Statistics, suggests that you had about a quarter million households that were the victim of at-least one break-ins in 2005. Dunno how that breaks down as to break ins per capita.

[Nadaka]

So what, you shoot somebody instead? How can you value a tv over human life?
Isn't it cheaper to get insurance than a gun?

Thieves do not break into an occupied house. Someone who breaks into an occupied house is looking for the people in side.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

So what, you shoot somebody instead? How can you value a tv over human life?
Isn't it cheaper to get insurance than a gun?

I don't really mean luxury items. I mean things like your documentation, financial information, or vehicle. Stuff that is both valuable to thieves and necessary for your manner of living.

But the luxury items being stolen would probably make me think less of shooting them too, yes.

Being robbed can cripple someone's life and send them into an inescapable downward spiral. If some worthless punk finds themselves in the ground or a cell a few years earlier than they otherwise would so that I can escape such a fate I think I could still sleep at night.

Thieves do not break into an occupied house. Someone who breaks into an occupied house is looking for the people in side.

There is the possibility of failing to case the house properly and breaking in when they believe it to be empty, but for the most part this is also true.

[Max White]

or a break in problem. Neither are an issue.

Um, do you have the numbers on that one? First source I find, here, has a little flash thing showing that Australia has a worse burglary rate than the US. Its apparently sourcing this, though I'm having trouble finding the actual data on that site.

Wow, we had the highest rate, and still nobody is pushing for looser gun laws. Perhaps it is the understanding that geographically half the country is living in third world conditions, and we should be trying to help these people, rather than shoot them.

I don't really mean luxury items. I mean things like your documentation, financial information, or vehicle. Stuff that is both valuable to thieves and necessary for your manner of living.

But the luxury items being stolen would probably make me think less of shooting them too, yes.

Being robbed can cripple someone's life and send them into an inescapable downward spiral. If some worthless punk finds themselves in the ground or a cell a few years earlier than they otherwise would so that I can escape such a fate I think I could still sleep at night.

Thieves do not break into an occupied house. Someone who breaks into an occupied house is looking for the people in side.

There is the possibility of failing to case the house properly and breaking in when they believe it to be empty, but for the most part this is also true.

How long would it take for the police to show up if you were reporting a break in, in progress? Let's say worst case, an hour. That is a very long wait for an emergency call by anybodies standards. Think thieves can find said documents in an hour? I think they would be very lucky to in my case, fuck I'm not sure I could find them in an hour, and I know the exact folder I'm looking for, and even the room that they should be in, they wouldn't.

Also, taking a stab at criminal psychology, are we?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

An hour is probably enough time to do multiple robberies. It's a very smash-and-grab type of crime, as you can see from post robbery photographs. A thief can grab whatever looks good and sort what is important and what isn't later on. I would expect that getting emergency services would take at least an hour to show up, and probably more time than that.

If you live in some place like Detroit you'd be lucky for them to show up at all.

[Max White]

So are they making snatch and grab attacks on the first big shiny thing they see, or are they taking the time to look through stuff like documents?
Please be consistent.

[Frumple]

That was consistent. Documents count as big-shiny-things nowadays. Grab as much paperwork as can in passing and ditch.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

So are they making snatch and grab attacks on the first big shiny thing they see, or are they taking the time to look through stuff like documents?
Please be consistent.

I didn't say they were looking for "big shiny things". A thief would know they can make good money off of stealing someone's identity along with their physical things, or that someone else would pay for the information to make that possible. Grabbing any documents that they come across and looking through them later would be an obvious course of action.

[Max White]

But to find such things takes a lot more time than noticing something like a television that is just out in the open. They would really need to give the place a good search to find that sort of stuff. You wouldn't have to to search in a snatch&grab.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

"A good search" is easier and faster than you might believe when you can just tear the place apart without any regard for what damage is caused. Televisions are big, heavy, noticeable, and not very valuable in 2012 unless it is one that scores very high marks in all three aforementioned categories.

[Max White]

You tear the place apart and you are bound to miss something. Fuck, if you are worried then it isn't hard to get a strongbox. They are also big, bulky and hard to move. You can bolt them to the wall if need be.

If you can't look after some papers, you are not the kind of person who should be looking after a firearm.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

You tear the place apart and you are bound to miss something.

You don't have to get 100% of what is valuable in a robbery. You just have to get some things that are worth stealing. Anything with a monetary statement on it, anything with a seal on it, anything that looks at a glance like it might be usable. Information is worth a great deal in the modern era.

You are correct, it is not that hard to get a strongbox, although only one that is indeed bolted into a wall would mean anything (a freestanding one can just be taken and cracked at a later date).

I can look after my papers. But we don't live in a perfect world. I might miss something, or someone else might not be as careful as me. And when that inevitably happens I or they would need to be prepared to defend themselves and their livelihood.

[Max White]

If you can miss a paper, you can mistake somebody for an intruder. If some people aren't as cautious as you, then fuck man, some people just aren't as cautious as you! We don't live in a perfect world, and that is why it is ignorant to think that it is ok to have a gun loaded and ready.