Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Il Palazzo]

What, you address your friend with a lower case d? Some friend you are. ;/
Also, the whole point is not to flare into righteous umbrage preemptively. When there is a hurt party, then it makes sense. As of now, there is no need, ergo it's silly.

[thvaz]

1.You are under no obligation to defend Toady's commercial nor moral rights to his work. Making a fuss about it when he doesn't is a bad case of overzealous patriotism. Nothing good ever came out of it.

I am discussing the issue. I am not hiring a lawyer or making a campaign against SoR.

2.You do not know if any copyright breach has occurred. Maybe they contacted Toady, maybe it's not copyrighted, maybe it wouldn't pass for a copyright infringement in a court.

Maybe one of these maybes was the reason they tried. Like "wow, look how much he makes in a month,I bet he could never hire a lawyer"

3.You are accusing the authors of trying to acquire financial gain by using the 13 second bit of (let's be honest, unexeptional)music, as if it were some magical compulsion tune, or extraordinary piece of art that will instantly turn every potential player into a buyer after hearing it. The only thing it can do, is remind any DF player that encounters it that indeed the authors do know DF, and are acknowledging where they got the idea for their game. The rest won't even notice.

If the piece of music is so insignificant, they could pass without it. Like others said, there is subtle and better ways of paying homage.

4.Calling people dicks is always silly.

Agreed.

You took some random fan's responses as the developers' answer. You continued to insult them. And in the end, because of the hostile attitude they're looking into changing it.

Maybe it is for the best. Their game has a lot of charm and it looks like it will be a good game on its own. They don't need to use DF assets to achieve sucess.

[Trorbes]

Maybe one of these maybes was the reason they tried. Like "wow, look how much he makes in a month,I bet he could never hire a lawyer"

Yes, let's blindly accuse them of malice and fraud, that is totally the rational response to this issue.

[Zorgn]

You took some random fan's responses as the developers' answer. You continued to insult them. And in the end, because of the hostile attitude they're looking into changing it.

Good. Would calm things down here a lot.

Anyway, I'm interested in hearing Toady's reaction to all this.

[Aribar Hunter]

.

[Rakonas]

I think this thread is silly, but the use of a blatant opening theme followed by denying it as anything more than inspired is bad characterization on the part of the devs, and doesn't bode well if they had some sort of 'amazing audio expert' whose main work appears to be half of plagiarism. It's not anyone but Toady's place to go attacking the dev, though, to be honest.

[jmancube]

Dwarf Fortress community, please grow a thicker skin. You guys and gals represent both this community and this game, especially when you post on other forums. I understand that you are very passionate about the game, but your attempts to defend it are often... Overzealous.

That was an antagonistic first post in that thread, Capntastic. You're leaping to the defense of something you know little about. How does Toady feel about this? Their developers? Why not let them hash it out?

You took some random fan's responses as the developers' answer. You continued to insult them. And in the end, because of the hostile attitude they're looking into changing it. Great job. You sure showed what the Dwarf Fortress community is like.

Edit: Punctuation.

Are... Are you Tastyrice?
I mean that was one hell of a passive aggressive bitch slap there to us all. There are some mixed opinions here, some for, some against, and some saying wait and see, but then you go and make a broad stroke statement saying "Great job. You sure showed what the Dwarf Fortress community is like." as if we are all in agreement, and we are wrong, and we are jerks for it. And not one of those things are true. Taking into account that this is the fan forums for DF, it makes you looks like a zealous dev looking to fight back.

No, I'm not. You can look at my account date and see it's five years old. I'm not some Escaped Lunatic looking to defend a game, and even if I was, it doesn't put you in the right. I apologize for generalizing this community, but a few bad apples do spoil the bunch. My previous post was targeted at the people who were aggressively handling this issue. I've seen this happen time and time again over the years and in some cases it has been warranted, and in some it hasn't. It still makes me ashamed to be a fan of the game and scares me away from these forums because of the close-minded attitude some members possess.

The number one reason why I posted here is to remind people to think before posting in the future. How are other people perceiving your comments? How do you represent the topic you're talking about? How much of your attitude being reflected on the forums and game you're representing? This place is, or should be, better than resorting to uncivil pokes at other forums.

Honestly, I was giving the other dev team the benefit of the doubt, and was kind of waiting to see what develops in the situation as time goes on. But I do think that this is an important issue, and I wouldn't characterize it as uncivil. This is the Bay 12 forums, so people are obviously going to be protective of the game that this forums is essentially based upon. Whether that protective attitude is necessary or not in this situation is yet to be discovered. So some may perceive a threat (however minor or unknown) to something they love/enjoy. They are obviously going to investigate the situation.

[chaoticag]

Okay, I think I ought too chip in here. I don't think that 13 seconds taken from a song and placed in something original is very positively illegal. Nor is it something to get rilled up about either, because it may just turn out to be from the same school of music as the one toady learned to play from. Even if he did take that much of the song from DF, simply put, he can consider it a remix and be in the clear. This isn't really theft of property, nor is it something to get so worked up about.

[Cthulhu]

A school of music that consists of a single tune?

[Dutchling]

This first few seconds sound kinda the same, and than it does't even remotely sound like it.
I must have clicked on the wrong audio thing was the 33 sec long one the right one or not?

[G-Flex]

Nor is it something to get rilled up about either, because it may just turn out to be from the same school of music as the one toady learned to play from.

No, it's pretty explicitly cribbed from DF.

Even if he did take that much of the song from DF, simply put, he can consider it a remix and be in the clear. This isn't really theft of property, nor is it something to get so worked up about.

This is not how the law works, jfyi. You cannot remix someone else's work, or do another sort of cover, then make money off of it, and not owe the original artist anything. Even Weird Al has to pay royalties to the artists who create the songs he parodies. If you cover someone else's work, you don't really need permission, but you do need to pay royalties.


Whether or not 15-or-so seconds of music is worth caring about, even legally speaking, is not a very straightforward question and probably depends on how much of the original work that excerpt represents, whether or not a profit is being made, and what it's being used for or in.

[Enzo]

I'm interested in hearing Toady's reaction to all this.

This. As much as lifting other artists work bugs me, that clip wasn't used with underhanded or malicious intent. I'd like to see Toady weigh in on this, because if he does have a problem with it, I'd bet he'd rather deal with it himself than have us launch a crusade fueled by righteous indignation on his behalf.

[nenjin]

From my end, I expect people doing a for-profit venture to exercise....I dunno, business 101 common sense? But it always seems like in the indie scene, people think the rules are different. They think they can do things that are not plausible in the normal game development arena, and get away with it here because.....?

I mean, look at Terraria. How much of that game, that just sold for close to $2 million in its opening week, used unoriginal sprite work to demo their product. What was the FIRST thing they changed once people started paying attention?

If feeling that way that makes me patriotic, elite dick, fine.

[Dutchling]

hmm, game seems fun... Pathfinding is a bit wierd though. The dwarf seems to prefer diagonal movement over vertical movement even if the target is one block up.

[Capntastic]

I'd like to see Toady weigh in on this, because if he does have a problem with it, I'd bet he'd rather deal with it himself than have us launch a crusade fueled by righteous indignation on his behalf.

I emailed Toady, he said he had not been asked for permission. So I went onto the forum and asked what they were doing.  That is hardly a crusade, nor is it righteous indignation.  I never said their intentions were malicious or mean spirited, merely that it does not paint them as entirely respectful to the thing they're claiming to take inspiration from. 

Dwarf Fortress community, please grow a thicker skin...

...That was an antagonistic first post in that thread, Capntastic.

I don't see how taking umbrage with someone taking assets from something else is being thin-skinned- I don't think anyone here is personally offended by Frenchricegames, or frothing at the mouth to see them destroyed.  I think their game actually looks pretty cool.  Further, my first post was Literally Me Posting Both Tunes side by side.   If you consider laying the facts out like that to be 'antagonistic' then I don't think I can take anything you say seriously.  Again, my intent was to point out to them that if they're really trying to make a proper game, it'd be for the best for them to actually be 100% original.   Especially if they're claiming to have a sound director on staff.

So yeah.  It's not that big of a deal, and it's a pretty amusing situation overall.  Again, Toady's corresponding with the dudes via email and sorting it all out.  My own posting on their forum was just to try and help them realize that if you're trying to make it in the DIY Game Scene, you should DIY.

(I'd also feel like I'm missing an opportunity if I failed to point out that any time you try to make your position seem more palatable by comparing yourself to Vanilla Ice, you've committed a serious logical flaw.)