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Author Topic: Taming Other Races: How to Make Second Class Citizens  (Read 2690 times)

Ravenkana

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Taming Other Races: How to Make Second Class Citizens
« on: June 03, 2011, 04:29:53 am »

What tags should I use to enable my Dwarfs to tame (brainwash) captured Humans, Elfs, Goblins, or Kobolds in a manner reminiscent of Tigermen? Certainly, those who have slain in the past shall be put down, but I really would like to have a useless population buffer that I could sacrifice or utilize for whatever purposes.

And if I were to do this, could I set them to work? I'd kinda like to, but only at specific, drudgery type jobs (hauling, military, woodcutting, carpentry, magma pipe breaching, etc.).
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Alem

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Re: Taming Other Races: How to Make Second Class Citizens
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2011, 04:55:54 am »

From what I am aware of, they need to have the [PET] tag, which will allow them to be treated like the tigermen. Also, as far as my knowledge goes, the only way to assign them any labors and them actually perform said labor is to use an external mod, like DFusion, which in a cruelly amusing fashion requires them to not have the [PET] tag in order to give them any labors. I would be happy to learn if there were any alternatives myself :)
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Ieb

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Re: Taming Other Races: How to Make Second Class Citizens
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2011, 06:03:15 am »

If I'm not too wrong, doing the "tame other races" by giving PET tokens makes you have elves and so on that can talk with other elves(somehow I recall different species don't get conversation points with each other, only with members of the same species) but they can't do any actual work.

DFusion aside, I'm also pretty sure that the easiest way to make a multi-species fort would be to make extra castes for your playable creatures. For example, vanilla DF has every civ-race as a humanoid, so you wouldn't need to give them any differing bodyparts(although I think kobolds had tails, extra bodyparts don't mess anything up though), just copy & put up the tags that make 'em differ from the other castes, skin-color, eye-color, bodysize and so on.

You wouldn't need to use any utilities with this method, but the "downside" is that they'd be able to marry and breed with eachother and there's nothing stopping from a dwarven couple to give birth to a kobold or goblin baby. One step to fix this would be to only have males of the other species present as caste-members, but that wouldn't stop them from marrying dwarves and a goblin&dwarf couple might end up with an elf baby.
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Kweri

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Re: Taming Other Races: How to Make Second Class Citizens
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2011, 12:34:58 pm »

If you have "elves" as a caste in your dwarven civ, I think you can do a few things to avoid the "dwarves giving birth to elves" scenario.

Don't give your elves genders. This means they won't breed. This means no elf/dwarf couples and no elves giving birth to dwarves.

Set their popratio to 0. This means they won't show up normally in the game from births/migrants.

Set them to pet/common domestic, give them a petvalue, and this should make them buyable on embark and from your caravan... I think.

I haven't tested any of the above personally.

Granted, this doesn't solve the OP's desire to capture and tame other races, but it's still slavery of a sort.
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thatkid

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Re: Taming Other Races: How to Make Second Class Citizens
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2011, 01:40:34 pm »

From what I am aware of, they need to have the [PET] tag, which will allow them to be treated like the tigermen. Also, as far as my knowledge goes, the only way to assign them any labors and them actually perform said labor is to use an external mod, like DFusion, which in a cruelly amusing fashion requires them to not have the [PET] tag in order to give them any labors. I would be happy to learn if there were any alternatives myself :)
How is this done with DFusion? It looks like the friendship option only allows you to alter the races of your starting seven and immigrants, but you can't "rehabilitate" prisoners of war into functioning members of dwarf society.
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GaxkangtheUnbound

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Re: Taming Other Races: How to Make Second Class Citizens
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2011, 03:07:34 pm »

You can make creatures perform labors by taming them via Runesmith. I managed to get a minotaur chopping trees for me.
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Rumrusher

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Re: Taming Other Races: How to Make Second Class Citizens
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2011, 03:18:42 pm »

From what I am aware of, they need to have the [PET] tag, which will allow them to be treated like the tigermen. Also, as far as my knowledge goes, the only way to assign them any labors and them actually perform said labor is to use an external mod, like DFusion, which in a cruelly amusing fashion requires them to not have the [PET] tag in order to give them any labors. I would be happy to learn if there were any alternatives myself :)
How is this done with DFusion? It looks like the friendship option only allows you to alter the races of your starting seven and immigrants, but you can't "rehabilitate" prisoners of war into functioning members of dwarf society.
uhh you might have to use Runesmith or code in a civ changer to change their civ number to yours and remove hostilities even so if they attack anyone on your civ they will be always hostile.
the embark allows you to alter the starting race of the starting seven, the migrant changes who comes into the fort, friendship allows any tame sentient creature to do work, through I found it easier to just remove the is resident flag off the friendly creature and change the civ number to match the dwarves.
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thatkid

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Re: Taming Other Races: How to Make Second Class Citizens
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2011, 03:26:17 pm »

From what I am aware of, they need to have the [PET] tag, which will allow them to be treated like the tigermen. Also, as far as my knowledge goes, the only way to assign them any labors and them actually perform said labor is to use an external mod, like DFusion, which in a cruelly amusing fashion requires them to not have the [PET] tag in order to give them any labors. I would be happy to learn if there were any alternatives myself :)
How is this done with DFusion? It looks like the friendship option only allows you to alter the races of your starting seven and immigrants, but you can't "rehabilitate" prisoners of war into functioning members of dwarf society.
uhh you might have to use Runesmith or code in a civ changer to change their civ number to yours and remove hostilities even so if they attack anyone on your civ they will be always hostile.
the embark allows you to alter the starting race of the starting seven, the migrant changes who comes into the fort, friendship allows any tame sentient creature to do work, through I found it easier to just remove the is resident flag off the friendly creature and change the civ number to match the dwarves.
I tried this, and it didn't work.
I don't suppose you could provide a short step-by-step walkthrough for people like me who have no clue what we're doing with these sort of programs?
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Rumrusher

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Re: Taming Other Races: How to Make Second Class Citizens
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2011, 03:29:59 pm »

From what I am aware of, they need to have the [PET] tag, which will allow them to be treated like the tigermen. Also, as far as my knowledge goes, the only way to assign them any labors and them actually perform said labor is to use an external mod, like DFusion, which in a cruelly amusing fashion requires them to not have the [PET] tag in order to give them any labors. I would be happy to learn if there were any alternatives myself :)
How is this done with DFusion? It looks like the friendship option only allows you to alter the races of your starting seven and immigrants, but you can't "rehabilitate" prisoners of war into functioning members of dwarf society.
uhh you might have to use Runesmith or code in a civ changer to change their civ number to yours and remove hostilities even so if they attack anyone on your civ they will be always hostile.
the embark allows you to alter the starting race of the starting seven, the migrant changes who comes into the fort, friendship allows any tame sentient creature to do work, through I found it easier to just remove the is resident flag off the friendly creature and change the civ number to match the dwarves.
I tried this, and it didn't work.
I don't suppose you could provide a short step-by-step walkthrough for people like me who have no clue what we're doing with these sort of programs?
tried hitting up on DFusion thread I'm pretty sure Daruis made a Slavery utility first and wrote a walkthrough on how to use it.
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Alem

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Re: Taming Other Races: How to Make Second Class Citizens
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2011, 03:39:36 pm »

As far as DFusion: Find out the creature name of the race you want to "employ", in my case it was TIGERMEN. Then go to the DFusion folder, open the plugins section, and then open the friendship folder. In there will be a file races.txt, add and remove the races you want to use accordingly. Any you don't remove apparently count as your civ, hostile or not, so the goblins that just died from the siege will demand burial and begin haunting you if you leave them in there. Afterwards, just run the tool and it should work, assuming no [PET] tag.

For Runesmith I would imagine, although I haven't done it myself, from the description you would open the tool, find your "employees" in the Creatures tab, then select the Flags tab to the right and uncheck the Is Resident box. Then, change the tab to Misc, and at the top double click the box with the civ number in it and change it to your own (found from the misc tab when you have one of your own Dwarves selected). Which I am certainly going to want to try, as it might let me keep the [PET] tag on and keep getting shipments from the elves of new tigermen  :D
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Ravenkana

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Re: Taming Other Races: How to Make Second Class Citizens
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2011, 12:34:23 am »

I think I'll just add the [PET] tag, that'll do fine. And that reminds me, I need to add [NOEAT] and [NODRINK] to the Kobolds. The other races have [CANLEARN], right? Cause I kind of want a Kobold Mayor.
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Ravenkana

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Re: Taming Other Races: How to Make Second Class Citizens
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2011, 09:32:53 am »

Pet tag didn't work, though NODRINK and NOEAT did. I have a Goblin Snatcher sitting in the stockpile and my Dwarfs are unable to tame her. Any suggestions? It's very vexing.
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Rumrusher

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Re: Taming Other Races: How to Make Second Class Citizens
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2011, 10:49:43 am »

you could at the embark screen use the friendship and embark to unlock noble screen access to your other races.
other  than that you could simply remove the is resident tag on the creature (using the flag changer in ADV_tools on the creature you want and type in 51) and run Friendship that way you could get access to fort mode with the character. (use runesmith or DFusion to remove hostilities by changing the Civ number to yours and removing invader flags DFusion hostilities command in Tools does the removing invader flags for you.)
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stabbymcstabstab

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Re: Taming Other Races: How to Make Second Class Citizens
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2011, 12:33:21 pm »

Raven did you add [PETVALUE:#] to it? that kind of helps
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Rumrusher

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Re: Taming Other Races: How to Make Second Class Citizens
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2011, 12:40:34 pm »

just gone through it and yeah flipping off the is resident tag and change the civ number to the creature race then running friendship will allow them to work.
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