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[CyberGenesis]

Sheb, you realize -we- get PDF next turn right? Are you forgetting that adwarf and tari sided with us and were obviously going to share the tech? So please, continue to attempt a run of my lands while i have the same defensive bonus - moreso since our Signalling is higher AND have Rapid Response. Our worst generals have 100ish initiative. You're not gaining ground sheb, you're taking territories i wasnt defending in the first place. I just made 20+ half tracks AND a dozen conscription Laser Rifles to your what? Half that? Including my current production - you have nothing militarily to win.

Please, make nukes, give us a reason to simply create an in-game Star Wars project and just laser your ICBMs out of the sky.

Get a strat, gain a turn, lose that strat the following turn. We've been playing this dance all game Sheb, you're losing because we're countering your strats and gutting your allies. We don't need to fight you directly when we control 3/4 the income in the game. We can simply outlast. As Tere said, I dont need to survive you, just delay you. Before you crush me phantom would be dead and tere would be 3-4m income to your 2.

[Sheb]

Lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala! I can't hear you!! Lalalalalalala! -Run in circles-.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Would anybody mind if I aired some of my ideas for the next game here? Having some feedback would help make the rules more fair and less exploitable.

EDIT: One third of the way through the conclusion. Just have to talk about aliens and the final stages on the war with the USSE.

[adwarf]

Sure go ahead. I would like something to do (School was cancelled today)

[USEC_OFFICER]

Right, so I've decided to include buildings in a bigger way. Instead of the half-assed measure I did here, the buildings will appear on the main map, so I have no excuse not to include them. Three types of buildings exist, cathedrals, cities and castles. Cathedrals convert nearby provinces to one of the two religions (duh). Cities produce half as much money as the province its in. Both castles and cities can garrison units. All buildings count as provinces for economy, education and espionage (Which are all based on province numbers now). Garrisoning units is important if your province gets invaded. If a province with a city or castle is invaded and taken over, as many defenders as possible will retreat to the building. The province is now considered to be in limbo, producing nothing. Additionally, it's treated as enemy territory for the purpose of movement. Additionally, any enemy units can't move to any of your provinces from that contested province if the building is a castle. If it's a city, they can move normally (If you can't understand what I'm saying, I can make a diagram. It'll probably help a lot). Buildings have a fortification level. When a garrison is attacked, their attack and defence is multiplied by the fortification level, which turns those units into killing machines (a castle at the lowest tech has a fortification level of 3). The fortification level can be reduced each turn by siege units.

Bleh, ask for clarifications if needed. My notes are more clear than his infodump, but much, much larger. I also have some rules for family members to add, but we can talk about buildings first.

[adwarf]

It all looks good, and makes sense (I read it twice to make sure) Also I suggest a fourth building, the Port. Allows launching of ships to sea, required for landing of larger ships, and such as well as launching of ships.

From that entire thing it seems that siege units will be vital for taking over territories.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Hmm... A port might be useful. Increase the amount of ships that can be made, since there will be only one ship type. The focus is on land combat, not naval one. Ports should also get a boost to economy, and is probably needed to transport units around. Since turns will be 10 years long (in-game, not real life ) you probably wouldn't even need ships to act as escorts. Well, only if the enemy has no naval units nearby.

From that entire thing it seems that siege units will be vital for taking over territories.

Yep, that's the idea. Of course, in a battle siege units aren't terribly useful. Their attack is high, but defence-wise they kinda suck.

[adwarf]

10 years o.O watch gunpowder get invented in eight turns.

[Sheb]

Yeah, ten years might be a bit excessive. Except if you want to include families, lines, descent and stuff.

[USEC_OFFICER]

10 years o.O watch gunpowder get invented in eight turns.

Yeah, ten years might be a bit excessive. Except if you want to include families, lines, descent and stuff.

Yeah, I know, but it's pretty much the only way to significantly include family lines. Besides, judging from the previous games someone would be victorious in 140~ years anyways.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Say, I was going to talk about my idea for the next game here, wasn't I?

Ten unit types exist in the game: Militia, Polearms, Infantry, Heavy Infantry, Ranged, Calvary, Knights, Horse Archers, Siege and Ships. Expect names to be recycled a bit. The last four ranks of Polearms are all Pikemen, but with different adjectives in front of the name.

Militia are weak, cheap and plentiful. The only units that aren't effective against them are Polearms, Infantry and other Militia. Due to the mechanics of the game, Militia work best as meatshields. If a unit can attack several different types of units that it is effective against, then it'll randomly pick one. Therefore Militia can draw attacks away from expensive and hard to replace units like Knights or Heavy Infantry.

Polearms are effective against Calvary and Knights, but get mauled by Infantry, Heavy Infantry and Ranged. They have better defence than attack, and are on the cheap side.

Infantry are rather generic units. Average all around, they are effective against Polearms and Ranged. Weak against Heavy Infantry and Knights.

Heavy Infantry are strong and expensive, and are better on offence than defence. They are effective against Polearms, Infantry and Militia. Only Ranged units are effective against them, so back them up with Infantry or Calvary.

Ranged units have more attack than defence, and are effective against Militia, Polearms, Heavy Infantry and Horse Archers. Infantry, Calvary and Knights can kill them easily though. A mixed force of Polearms and Archers make a nice and balanced force, especially if you include some Knights to kill any Ranged units or Infantry.

Calvary are rather expensive, with okay stats. They're effective against Ranged units, Militia and Horse Archers. Only Polearms are effective against them.

Knights are effective against Militia, Infantry and Ranged units. With their high stats they can smush almost anything else on the field. Polearms and Horse Archers can turn them into mince-meat, so make sure that you bring back up. Needless to say, they cost a small fortune to make.

Horse Archers are rather expensive, and like Ranged units have more attack than defence. They are effective against Militia, Knights and Infantry, but get mauled by Ranged units and Calvary. With their higher attack, they are better at killing Knights than Polearms.

I'm not sure whether to include Siege units in the whole effectiveness table. They're mostly for sieges anyways, and will generally be slightly too expensive to risk in a battle. Plus, they'll have crappy defence.

Hopefully I'll get the conclusion up today, so that we can finally finish the game.

[Terenos]

Well the answer to Siege weaponry is kind of obvious from my point of view. Have them be captureable or destroyable. For example.
My army, with siege weapons is marching on CG. He, decides to try to intercept them. If I win the fight, well I keep my siege weapons. If CG wins, he might capture them, or given a roll, my forces will destroy them rather than let them be captured by the enemy.

They wont matter in a conventional fight, but this still has combat influence them.
As for the rest it looks good.

[Skyrunner]

I think siege weapons should be weak against all enemies except when attacking. Also the same defense as you would expect a bunch of civilians with swords to have.

[Sheb]

I like Terenos' idea better.

[USEC_OFFICER]

As do I.

EDIT: Guess what I'm typing up right now?