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[CyberGenesis]

Pursue how? PDLs and offensive weaponry

Screw the immigrants, pure-faction evac only. Research your vaccine, you can't make it 100% effective, firing your bioweapons is a double-edged sword. All you minor factions will likely take a 50% loss in provinces at a minimum, if not everything.

Im also unsure how shebs armies made it to 90, 91, and 95 when i had my armies lining the border. I see the 4th Nalian is missing, but that doesnt explain how 2 other armies made it through. That would mean a progressive conquer movement - which has been ruled against in the past

[Taricus]

It was? tell that to Terenos then...

[CyberGenesis]

Find me evidence Terenos managed to steamroll multiple provinces in a succession without mobility support

The only way i can see sheb managed this was the used of the 3rd red to transport the units sitting in 95. So basically they were allowed ot make 2 strikes

I can see the navy used to transport to 108...but how does a navy and 2 fighters occupy a province when neither can actually get ON land?

Yes, i sound like a dick about this, but seriously? The last few turns have been FULL of epic amounts of favoritism towards your side. We've played by every one of the rules and yet magically we keep running into instances where the rules are ignored against us, broken techs are allowed and events that magically land DEEP into safe territory.

[Terenos]

I never progressively conquered, I simply swung at each available province, via land and sea. And it -looks- like thats whats done here. But the turns such a mess who can tell?

[Taricus]

They're using the docks and carriers/airfields.

[CyberGenesis]

Docks? So what came to land? Sailors? And what airfields? You cant land air units in any province you or an ally don't control - per USEC's own rulings

[Bdthemag]

Are you seriously resorting to "BUT USEC SAID THAT YOU COULDN'T DO THIS, COME ON GUYS LISTEN TO ME!". Im not sure after all this time USEC would make a mistake like that, but then again I may be wrong so whatever.

[CyberGenesis]

Am i resorting to established rulings? In a game that is based in rules? LE GASP! WHAT HORRORS!

USEC fully admits to errors inturns, and unless you're blind and/or retarded - you'll have noticed an epic amount of clerical rewrites over the past...what turn are we on now?

And THAT i dont fault him for, been there and done that. Our EG game was wrought with clerical errors, mostly due to people doing what sheb did - changing their damn minds at the last minute.

Im gonna need to know what happened to the First Regiment which was occupying Adwarf's capital of #3, whats left of it, where it is..

I have the same issues with the 4th Nalian

[Terenos]

So heres whats obvious. Sheb paid for the rebellions.

Heres whats bullshit: Laser rifles. Now, I don't see Gen 4 on Sheb's troops last turn. I see Gen 3. Those laser rifles, should be Infantry. Thats all Sheb's factories had the ability to churn out that turn. So thats all they could supply.

Yet more bullshit: Brutal Suppression: Provinces cannot rebel. Now, I'm -relatively- certain that the entire purpose of this tech is to prevent espionage related shenanigans that cause rebellion. Oddly, I had that. Now I don't know what kind of slacking occurs in my virtual army. But all those rebellious provinces had armies. Two of those armies were modest (and gone now, but I imagine that was due to unfair combat due to my enemy getting inappropriate troops, and my Morale being completely ignored). Now I would argue that its straight bullshit that my army, acting under Brutal Suppression would allow any sort of gathering on that scale. So they'd have struck preemptively. Or just done their jobs and prevented rebellion.

Either way, I contest free laser rifles. If Phantom had paid for it. Sure. But because Sheb did? No. Sheb had Infantry. The returning factions -should- get Infantry.


Effectively? Bull. Fucking. Shit. USEC. Where are -my- awesome freebies? Wheres the new faction showing up that has decent tech levels, that will share it with me to stop someone else from winning? Where are my incredible breakthroughs for dirt cheap prices? Where are the survivors of mine and CG's forces who should be..somewhere?  Wheres the effect from the tech that CG spent money on with the express purpose to stop this exact thing?
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Yes, I'm well aware this is a tad whiny/rules lawyery. But me and CG have earned this victory via cunning and skill. Not suspicious looking 'luck' or handouts'. So if GM bullshit takes it from me, I think I should be upset.

[Sheb]

Well, as far as the Laser Rifles are concerned, it was a joint effort between the three of us, at least for the capitals. So you could say Phantom furnished the lasers, atlhough a mix on LAser and Infantry would be fairer. Corran Jungle was entirely my own, so this should be infantry.

As for ships invading lands, they always could do that. They can move into coastal provinces. I do not know where you read they couldn't. As for the plane, you failed. Go read the rules again.

We did "win" not by pure luck or GM's handout, (although luck did play a part), but also by reading the rules again and again. And trying to bend them for our interest. Poor's man weapon.

P.S. And my reading of brutal suppression was that it removed the standard rebellions thing, and maybe the ethnicity bonus. Not that it protected you from anything but direct attack forever for almost no cost. (Come on, one unit of militia every fourth province can be considered free.) Balance, and all that.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Ok, issues:
1)
Research orders: 950k
200,000 - Underground Bunkers: Def vs ICBMs and Orbital Bombardment
750,000 - Core Tap

You changed the amount of money you put into Underground Bunkers, remember? And with your level of technology, researching Core Tap will either require massive amounts of money or luck.

2)
How was my east side hit without a navy when you've explicitly told Terenos over-seas attacks require naval support?

The 1st Crimson Flotilla is hiding out in Scardon, and the 3rd Red Army has some ships to ferry it around. Plus, aircraft can fly over provinces.

3) How did they rebel with Brutal Suppression in effect?

Brutal Suppression lowered the chance of rebellion to zero, but once you fact in techs Phantom and Bdthemag have a 2 rank lead over Terenos. Sheb funnelled all of their free EPs, and the $250,000 for escape pods into causing about 8-9 rebellions in the New Unity. However since the chance of each succeeding is only 20%, only 3 of them actually occured. The rest were suppressed. Brutally.

USEC. Do I gain anything from seizing the Pwenet and its databases?

You got the space evalator tech from it. I was going to give you more. Probably at the same time when I would update economic information. I'll do it today.

Question: Since when can air units take control of a province? Ruling dictate that they need to take off from, AND land in, allied ground

Nuke w had the same problem in the very first C@W:HE game. There I ruled that it was perfectly legal. After all, taking control of a province does make it friendly.

Yeah..Im gonna need some numbers on rearming and repairing the Pwenet. And what having it gives me, cause I own the databases.

I'll make up a number later today. Probably quite a bit, but it should be worth it.

Im gonna need to know what happened to the First Regiment which was occupying Adwarf's capital of #3, whats left of it, where it is..

Damn it, didn't see it. They'll probably be crushed by adwarf's Laser Rifles, but he'll lose some units as well.

Im also unsure how shebs armies made it to 90, 91, and 95 when i had my armies lining the border. I see the 4th Nalian is missing, but that doesnt explain how 2 other armies made it through. That would mean a progressive conquer movement - which has been ruled against in the past

He had ships, and then loaded some units on them. When the ships went past a certain province, they dumped a bunch of units on its shores. If you want, I can show you the orders that Sheb gave me.

I can see the navy used to transport to 108...but how does a navy and 2 fighters occupy a province when neither can actually get ON land?

Well, unless I misread your turn, Scardon was unoccupied. All the ships had to do was sail into the docks and fire a couple of shots. According to the rules, naval units can only participate in the first round of combat. They come in, nobody opposes them, so they can literally come in and take over the place. Plus, they do have crews and weapons, more than enough to handle anybody who isn't a trained military professional.

Im gonna need to know what happened to the First Regiment which was occupying Adwarf's capital of #3, whats left of it, where it is..

I have the same issues with the 4th Nalian

See the comment to Terenos's question. I must have forgotten to calculate the battle and deleted it for some reason or other. I'll do that today.

Heres whats bullshit: Laser rifles. Now, I don't see Gen 4 on Sheb's troops last turn. I see Gen 3. Those laser rifles, should be Infantry. Thats all Sheb's factories had the ability to churn out that turn. So thats all they could supply.

... Crap. I did not see that. More stuff to reroll.

Yet more bullshit: Brutal Suppression: Provinces cannot rebel. Now, I'm -relatively- certain that the entire purpose of this tech is to prevent espionage related shenanigans that cause rebellion.

From what I understood about the tech, it was supposed to prevent provinces from rebelling on their own. That is what I took into consideration for the previous turn. If you can show me a post where you or CyberGenesis told me anything different, I will gladly change this current turn to reflect that. Otherwise, I'm sorry if I mistook the implied intent of the tech.

Yes, I'm well aware this is a tad whiny/rules lawyery. But me and CG have earned this victory via cunning and skill. Not suspicious looking 'luck' or handouts'. So if GM bullshit takes it from me, I think I should be upset.

You have every right to be whiny/rules lawyery.

In conclusion: I should probably take a day or two to go over the turns a couple of times.

So, today I will (hopefully) solve:
The disappearence of the 4th Nalian and First Regiment.
The problems of supplying rebels.
The battles that these rebels have participated in.
Tech from the ESS Pwenet.
The costs of repairing the ESS Pwenet.

Anything else to add?

[Sheb]

Also, I must say that I totally expected you to attack us. What with CG never helding his promises, and I couldn't get any informations from the Pewnet.

[Terenos]

As far as brutal suppression goes, Whats the purpose if it if not to stop espionage shenanigans? An ordinary rebellion can (and has) been stopped by simply one defender. So ordinary rebellion costs $10,000 to stop per province. Why build a special tech to stop it when he could have just spent that money stopping those rebellions with 10k apiece?

Not to mention when this came up several hundred posts ago (people talking about rebellion), me and Cyber said 'yeah nice try but we have brutal suppression.. No rebellion for you eh?" and you didn't shoot down our assumption then. We could have made alternate plans.

So lets see.. Since I don't see a budget from Phantom for his supposed espionage contribution I can only assume he used the free.. 5000 * 4 from the tech breakthrougsh which is..Insufficient to mount a rebellion. Rebellions in part? I think not. Same with Seportia. Between the two of them (Not even counting any negatives from my CE tech) they couldnt cause one province to rebel.
But lets be generous and add in another 40k from Phantom. Thats what his turn budget might suggest.. So..Maybe 1 of these rebelling provinces would have laser rifles and brings our total available rebelling area to 6 provinces (Again ignoring the entire -EP's from Counter Espionage.) We're not at that 8-9 provinces yet.
Nother 60k from Seportia and we get a further province (that would have rebelled with just Infantry). And we're at 7 total provinces that might have rebelled. 3/7? Reasonable enough for me. But I still contest free laser rifles.

Furthermore: I take issue with the ability to buy Espionage points and then spend them the same turn. This completely removes the point of CE's -1k to EP's per rank, per turn. As they can simply be bought in sufficient quantity, and used with no issue.
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Well next up we can shoot down Phantoms build up due to him not having the manufacturing capability for the army he put together in Svaboda.
His actual manufacturing capability: $129,000 (50k base, 50k Manufacturing, 25k Economy, 4k Logistics)
The manufacturing he did: x5 Laser Rifles, $85,000, x2 Interceptor, $70,000, x1 General, $5,000. For a sum total of $160,000

He additionally did this last turn as well. Producing 32 -x6 Infantry, $87,000. X1 Heavy Tank, $48,000. x1 General, $5,000. x2 Militia, $20,000. A total of..Exactly the same. $160,000 with the same manufacturing capability.
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And I? I only betrayed Taricus. I had no deals with anyone else. I was willing to play nice. Well. Not anymore. But I was!
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Edit: EVEN BETTER!
I am willing to accept that Brutal suppression drops exact %'s on rebellion to 0. Then its a matter of contesting tech. This means that based on last turn, Sheb cannot succeed(Espionage Tech 2: Volunteer Spies vs My CE 2: Swat Teams) Only Phantom and BD can. Admittedly this might give one of my enemies laser rifles as it would be Phantom's success but yknow what? Still fine with that. Cause it drops total rebellious provinces to 2.

[Sheb]

Actually, I didn't attack you. I'm still willing not to attack you. :p

[Terenos]

You funded rebellion in my provinces. In order to curb my power, and give yourself time to defeat CG and then destroy me with your alliance. This is pretty much a declaration of war.
Not to mention I'm effectively at war with you anyways. The teams are drawn up, And theres not gonna be any diplomacy any more.