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[FuzzyZergling]

By the by, How far can our armies move in a given turn? Is it a restriction based on units? For example (And lets not read this as a declaration of anything but my need to clarify some rules) How long would it take for a militia in Bounty to reach Paradiso? Or a ship out from Assailia to reach the lands of Canuckia? Or any X to Y distance question. As I'm curious and feel it might come up quickly.

I think that wasteland can only be crossed 1/turn, but I could be wrong. No idea on occupied territory.

[Sheb]

Yup, Wasteland cannot be crassed easily.

Also, CG I'm sorry that I haven't explained myself earlier, but I had a math exam this morning and I was too busy playing LCS studying.

Well, basically during the first turns you refused to settle on any borders, just telling me you had a deal with Cript. My proposals were discarded without counter-proposals, and then the only guy I could count on to help me (because he was the only one around not part of your deal) got crushed by a chunk of the ESS Pewnet (Thanks Osiris, I appreciate the intention, but you're not exactly helping me there).

So yeah, either we settle on borders now or we continue building up troops and we go to war in a couple of turn.

Hint: I prefer the first option, it doesn't offer the opportunity to sneaky characters on the West to grow to powerful while we're busy. I'm totally not targeting you Terenos.

[Sheb]

Okay CyberGenesis, here is my proposal. With economy level 6, it gave us all income of roughly 670.000$, give or take 10,000$ (Except for ggamer who got around 625,000$, but can get more if he colonize that island). You and I got 11 provinces, Cript get 13 (So he'll get a better deal if he get more economy and GGamer got 12.



I hope the West is satisfied about the plan for the East.

[Terenos]

Simply to point this out, As a semi objective third party:
Sheb by claiming those lands, is effectively claiming almost -all- the easily colonizeable locations. This to me seems suspicious because his strength will grow far faster than any of yours. Whats to stop him from discarding this deal later, when he is an industrial juggernaut?
He already aims to grow stronger than you. This ..Arrangement would put him ahead of you, in a way that you cannot recover from easily. You would, quite simply be forced to abide by his terms while trying to piece together your own lands. He would have no such trouble, as grassland and forest are far easier to colonize than tundra and desert.

After which, By money he will have outpaced you -easily-. And money leads to all things. So you will either be his little vassal states, Or overrun at the slightest hint of threatening his power. Tread carefully.

But I'm sure Cyber will be happy with his tundra, And Cript will be overjoyed to see all those lovely deserts fall under his dominion.

Why we always gotta be on opposite sides Sheb? Oh, That's right, I'm far and away too cunning to fall for your diplomatic wiles.

[Sheb]

Trouble is, I am already bigger than them (due to luck and good landing position), and provinces around me are mostly easy to colonize.

Cript has to expland northward, if only because CyberGenesis won't give him his capital provinces and there is simply not much land on the South and East.

As for me discarding this plan later on? Well, under this plan I only have 3 more provinces to colonize. So I'd have to scale back on colonizing THIS very turn. AKA: I am already an industrial juggernaut and I'll never be in a better position to unilaterally bitch-slap the whole continent than now. And still I'm not doing it, I'm trying to reach an agreement.

And mething Cript and CG are smart enough to gang up on me if I'm not respecting my part of the deal.

[USEC_OFFICER]

By the by, How far can our armies move in a given turn? Is it a restriction based on units? For example (And lets not read this as a declaration of anything but my need to clarify some rules) How long would it take for a militia in Bounty to reach Paradiso? Or a ship out from Assailia to reach the lands of Canuckia? Or any X to Y distance question. As I'm curious and feel it might come up quickly.

I suppose I should have explained this better, so here it goes:

For land units (And air units that want to move like land units) It depends on who controls the provinces in question. Movement along friendly provinces is infinite¹. Moving from Paradiso to Bounty will take only 1 turn, as long as a uninterupted chain of provinces exists between them. Allied provinces also count to this movement rule.

Sea units can't move through provinces, but can move through 5 sea zones a turn², as long as nothing (like an enemy fleet) can block them. So moving from Assailia to the lands Canuckia only takes one turn.

Air units can move like land units, but they also have a special form of movement. They can fly over any three provinces/sea zones a turn. It doesn't matter what provinces/sea zones they are. The only two things that matter are:
1. That the province they take off from is controlled by youself or an ally.
2.a. The province that they land in is controlled by yourself or an ally.
2.b. There is a valid target to attack in their destination.
Air units can't take off or land in wilderness.

By the by, How far can our armies move in a given turn? Is it a restriction based on units? For example (And lets not read this as a declaration of anything but my need to clarify some rules) How long would it take for a militia in Bounty to reach Paradiso? Or a ship out from Assailia to reach the lands of Canuckia? Or any X to Y distance question. As I'm curious and feel it might come up quickly.

I think that wasteland can only be crossed 1/turn, but I could be wrong. No idea on occupied territory.

Wilderness and enemy provinces³ can only be crossed at 1 per turn.

Hope this helps.

<sup>1. If you didn't notice, in game the turns take more than a year (though its rapidly reducing to a year a turn).
2. Again, due to in game turn length. A lack of logestical support (and for fairness sake) prevents them from moving further.
3. Since you have to attack any enemy units in that province, and pacify it.</sup>

[CyberGenesis]

Actually that arrangement isn't too terrible. Obviously terenos makes an interesting point about the EASE of colonizing the area that isnt grassland. If i can get a few more ranks in colonization - it wont matter too much anyway (on that note: if anyone would like to assist funding my colonization research - i'd be happy to share)

[adwarf]

Sorry about that I will need to sue this more.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Sorry about that I will need to sue this more.

Thank you. I don't mind some discussion in the main thread, but I'd prefer to keep conversations/discussions/arguments here.

[Sheb]

CyberGenesis, I'm afraid you just weren't lucky to land in a area open to coloniztion... No my fault, really.

[CyberGenesis]

Again, my entire ingoring of your demands to negotiate claims was completely justified. I had seen your claims, they didn't conflict with mine. What reason did i have to argue?

[Sheb]

Mostly that army build-up+secretive deal with my other neighbor+refusing to negotiate borders set my paranoia sense ringing.

[Terenos]

You ought to get that looked at Sheb. Its over-sensitive. Glad to hear there might be peace in the east.

[Sheb]

I guess I played to much Diplomacy recently. :p

[CyberGenesis]

There was no secret deal, i told you numerous times that if you wanted to make claims on land i didnt want, there was no issue. You wanted to make claims on land i knew first-hand cript wanted, so i told you to go talk to him. This was entirely in an effort to mitigate the hostility. The fact you took it to be a hostile intention is not my fault and leads me to believe the diplomacy you were playing was created by JF.

And as stated before - my buildup was in response to barbarossa trying to get into my area.

So yes, continue trying to act like a victim here Sheb. Given you've won the last 2 C@W games, and many of us having played with you in C@W or F@W? You're not fooling any of us. Your tactics at attempts to placate your neighbors -just- long enough that they're no longer a threat to you are not exactly a secret. While neither me nor cript have any reason -not- to ally with you, we (or at least i) would prefer you cut the posturing and bull when speaking to or about us.

Diplomacy in these games is short lived at best, and no one here has any secrets. We all have PMs, we have this thread. No one can lie their way into starting a war between other people.

In short - Stop acting like I'm trying to kill you. My current turn's increase in forces is entirely due to your arrogant posturing and claiming to just take everything and handle dividing it later. That, Sir, is a TERRIBLE claim to make when you're trying to be diplomatic. It makes you look like an ass. As i said - I have no issue allying you, but stop being a tool at least. Cause i would rather die, cripple you, and prevent you from winning than allow you to win simply out of my own desire to stay in the game.

Mutually Assure Destruction is one HELL of a useful tactic.