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[Duuvian]

Yay, someone doesn't think I'm crazy again

[Duuvian]

I don't think rising water levels actually make desalination plants cheaper or more effective.

A brief perusal of wikipedia tells me that the real problem isn't how to make the desert smaller, it's how to keep it from getting bigger.

Yeah. You want to know what might work? If countries in the Sahara gave out legal land grants to companies and such that ran waterpipelines; sort of like the railroads were run in America. The pipes would have to be resistant to abrasion by sand I'd guess, they might even have a sand hill accumulate around them.

In the old west the government gave out free land 15 miles in diameter of the tracks. That's plenty of land for a company to make money in a desert.

Note that I am pretty much unfamiliar with the Sahara desert, but I do see an incredible opportunity for this decade's megaproject.

Terraforming money for a desalination based irrigation system would probably be money well spent over the years (we're talking hundreds)

[TherosPherae]

I think there's a reason the Sahara's a desert and that it's stayed that way for a while.

Reason: It's a bunch of really hot, low-nutrient shifty sand with very few natural water sources spread over a large area.

Seriously, if you could manage to get a bunch of water into the Sahara, you'd have a hell of a time getting anything to grow. And this is AFTER you manage to get your water management buildings set up to protect your pumps from sandstorms and shit. AND, even if you got something to grow, you'd have to supply it with water to keep it from drying up. And keeping a water supply requires... energy. And we're already running rather low on that at the moment as it is, as is noticeable with the rising gas prices. And the purpose of terraforming this massive chunk of sand is.... what again?

So is it doable? Maybe. Is it practical or useful in the current economy? No.

[Duuvian]

I think there's a reason the Sahara's a desert and that it's stayed that way for a while.

Reason: It's a bunch of really hot, low-nutrient shifty sand with very few natural water sources spread over a large area.

Seriously, if you could manage to get a bunch of water into the Sahara, you'd have a hell of a time getting anything to grow. And this is AFTER you manage to get your water management buildings set up to protect your pumps from sandstorms and shit. AND, even if you got something to grow, you'd have to supply it with water to keep it from drying up. And keeping a water supply requires... energy. And we're already running rather low on that at the moment as it is, as is noticeable with the rising gas prices. And the purpose of terraforming this massive chunk of sand is.... what again?

So is it doable? Maybe. Is it practical or useful in the current economy? No.

It's obviously practical in the current economy. Why else would a bunch of corporations do it? They were able to create a port city with a desalination plant; why couldn't a series of desalination plants shipped via pipeline do the same? It's essentially what companies do to rural people when they want to expand their sewers to make money. Except in this case they aren't forcing people to give up a viable source of water through taking over the local government, and instead are providing a service that wasn't available before.

As far as farmland, that may be a ways off, yes, but if there was ever a time to market for fertilizer (a byproduct I might add)

[TherosPherae]

I think there's a reason the Sahara's a desert and that it's stayed that way for a while.

Reason: It's a bunch of really hot, low-nutrient shifty sand with very few natural water sources spread over a large area.

Seriously, if you could manage to get a bunch of water into the Sahara, you'd have a hell of a time getting anything to grow. And this is AFTER you manage to get your water management buildings set up to protect your pumps from sandstorms and shit. AND, even if you got something to grow, you'd have to supply it with water to keep it from drying up. And keeping a water supply requires... energy. And we're already running rather low on that at the moment as it is, as is noticeable with the rising gas prices. And the purpose of terraforming this massive chunk of sand is.... what again?

So is it doable? Maybe. Is it practical or useful in the current economy? No.

It's obviously practical in the current economy. Why else would a bunch of corporations do it? They were able to create a port city with a desalination plant; why couldn't a series of desalination plants shipped via pipeline do the same? It's essentially what companies do to rural people when they want to expand their sewers to make money. Except in this case they aren't forcing people to give up a viable source of water through taking over the local government, and instead are providing a service that wasn't available before.

They made a port city via desalinization. Cool. It probably had a use.

What use, exactly, could a terraformed Sahara have to a corporation which is aiming to increase profit?

[Duuvian]

I think there's a reason the Sahara's a desert and that it's stayed that way for a while.

Reason: It's a bunch of really hot, low-nutrient shifty sand with very few natural water sources spread over a large area.

Seriously, if you could manage to get a bunch of water into the Sahara, you'd have a hell of a time getting anything to grow. And this is AFTER you manage to get your water management buildings set up to protect your pumps from sandstorms and shit. AND, even if you got something to grow, you'd have to supply it with water to keep it from drying up. And keeping a water supply requires... energy. And we're already running rather low on that at the moment as it is, as is noticeable with the rising gas prices. And the purpose of terraforming this massive chunk of sand is.... what again?

So is it doable? Maybe. Is it practical or useful in the current economy? No.

It's obviously practical in the current economy. Why else would a bunch of corporations do it? They were able to create a port city with a desalination plant; why couldn't a series of desalination plants shipped via pipeline do the same? It's essentially what companies do to rural people when they want to expand their sewers to make money. Except in this case they aren't forcing people to give up a viable source of water through taking over the local government, and instead are providing a service that wasn't available before.

They made a port city via desalinization. Cool. It probably had a use.

What use, exactly, could a terraformed Sahara have to a corporation which is aiming to increase profit?

What did the Prairie turn into? The Western States?

[ChairmanPoo]

A few years ago I read about an initiative in Africa by several countries. They intended to build a "green wall" by planting trees in a really long streak, to contain the desert.

[Duuvian]

Did that work? What you need is lots of compost; which happens to be a byproduct of living

[TherosPherae]

I think there's a reason the Sahara's a desert and that it's stayed that way for a while.

Reason: It's a bunch of really hot, low-nutrient shifty sand with very few natural water sources spread over a large area.

Seriously, if you could manage to get a bunch of water into the Sahara, you'd have a hell of a time getting anything to grow. And this is AFTER you manage to get your water management buildings set up to protect your pumps from sandstorms and shit. AND, even if you got something to grow, you'd have to supply it with water to keep it from drying up. And keeping a water supply requires... energy. And we're already running rather low on that at the moment as it is, as is noticeable with the rising gas prices. And the purpose of terraforming this massive chunk of sand is.... what again?

So is it doable? Maybe. Is it practical or useful in the current economy? No.

It's obviously practical in the current economy. Why else would a bunch of corporations do it? They were able to create a port city with a desalination plant; why couldn't a series of desalination plants shipped via pipeline do the same? It's essentially what companies do to rural people when they want to expand their sewers to make money. Except in this case they aren't forcing people to give up a viable source of water through taking over the local government, and instead are providing a service that wasn't available before.

They made a port city via desalinization. Cool. It probably had a use.

What use, exactly, could a terraformed Sahara have to a corporation which is aiming to increase profit?

What did the Prairie turn into? The Western States?

The Prairie was very productive farmland. Still is, in a way. The Sahara would not be, because it's all sand. Sand is usually not very conducive to growing plants, especially when sandstorms happen.

Fakeedit: I want to know how you intend to get all this compost and dump it in the Sahara in such a way that it won't get tossed around by the wind or fried into a cake by the heat.

[breadbocks]

Duuv, essentially, the problem with this is it just isn't viable. Desalination is an inefficient and expensive process, and it takes massive amounts of time to build a plant large enough to do much of anything. No water means no irrigation.

[Criptfeind]

What did the Prairie turn into? The Western States?

Prairie =! Desert.

Although, I do not see any reason why anyone would want to do this in a desert. Seriously, I mean, that sounds like sooooo much work. It would never be worth it.

Now, maybe Australia or some parts of the southern U.S. might be worth such a thing.

[Nikov]

Somehow it seems more efficient for the Libyans to just trade oil for dollars, then dollars for U.S. agricultural products. I mean, I have strawberries in my refrigerator in Febuary not because of an elaborate greenhouse system next door, but because Argentina exports them in winter.

[Duuvian]

Duuv, essentially, the problem with this is it just isn't viable. Desalination is an inefficient and expensive process, and it takes massive amounts of time to build a plant large enough to do much of anything. No water means no irrigation.

Thanks, breadbocks, that's more what I was hoping to hear rather than just that it isn't feasible. I can now look into it and see how feasible it is compared to historically. Many people think about short term benefits but this would be a major infrastructure project like the suez canal or some such. Perhaps it could function as a form transport as our history of canals has shown.

As far as being lucrative; imagine this. You would have massive amounts of arable land that you could grow specialized species in. I assume there was a reason the Hanging Gardens of Babylon were spectacular; this would be similar as it would be the only place in the region to grow produce.

EDIT: In addition, since there is possibly oil there, countries that aren't desert could trade fertilizer for it. Haha?

EDIT2: Basically what it might do is keep a few of us guys taking advantage of them; and then leaving them with desert. Meanwhile everybody makes money and they get water.

[Heliman]

Actually, rising sea levels will in fact increase the productivity of the desalinization plant to a minimal degree at the very least, because it will dilute the mineral content (IE salt) present in the water, thereby decreasing the amount of salt desalinated per liter.

TL;DR Less salt, easier job.

[Duuvian]

Well, I kinda didn't mean the whole Sahara. I'd assume there are spots that are more livable than others. Isn't Australia kinda like that? I've never been there.