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[MetalSlimeHunt]

Why are male and female candidates equally likely at L+?  At L+, we don't stop at equality!  Women should be more likely!

Once again, what the LCS says has to be reflected by reality due to the game's satirical nature. Men being underrepresented in L+ Women's Rights would be how the CCS would see it. (Well, that would be more like M for the CCS. L would likely force them out of politics, and L+ would make them abused slaves of a Radical Feminist Regime. I digress.)

[mainiac]

Huh?

[Jonathan S. Fox]

I would make L+ represent anti-male discrimination in a game where you play as the CCS.

[Kay12]

Well, Elite Liberals requiring Presidents to be female or African American etc would make sense in a way. Liberals like reverse discrimination, and that would make up for all those years without female & black Presidents. After 2300 the balance should be fixed and white men can become Presidents again.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It doesn't make sense for LCS, regardless of how actual liberals feel. LCS advocates total equality, and parts of the game's satire are that:

A. The LCS is always right, no matter what.
B. Law=Reality

As the Elite Liberal position on women and races is total equality, that's how the game should represent them. We are viewing all of the game through the eyes of deluded maniacs, after all.

[Kay12]

No, you're wrong. Liberals advocate affirmative action, and affirmative action is not total equality, is it? No. Affirmative action is quotas, limits, regulations to enforce a "fair" gender/race share. At extreme (which is what LCS is about), it could be something like Presidents being of alternating sex (male, female, male, female) and/or race.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

And the idea behind those affirmative action is that it ends with their being an equal chance of any race or sex reaching a given position despite the existance of societal or proportional bias. As the LCS is always right within the context of the game, this should end with the chance of the president being male or female at 50% when it comes to Elite Liberals.

[Kay12]

No, that would be pretty standard equality. Affirmative action would enforce an outcome, not simply randomize it. Affirmative action dictates that the Congress must be divided between genders 50/50, every major company's board must be divided between genders 50/50, and because the Precidency can't be divided, it has to be shared 50/50.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Think of how affirmative action works for colleges. It doesn't determine who graduates, just who gets in. If it effected the Presidency, it would do so by making it 50/50 for the canidates, not the winners.

[Kay12]

The very point of affirmative action is to undermine hidden sexism/racism by balancing for it. Despite total gender equality in law, males are frequently thought as more trustworthy and this may result in an unfair advantage. It would suit the silly LCS atmosphere well if this balancing was taken to the extreme by making the Precidency alternate between the sexes.

Also, one of the issues in the left/right division is the definition of equality. Right-wingers typically define equality as the equality of chance - everyone gets a fair chance at education and work. Left-wingers (the actual ones, not the Democrats) typically define equality as the equality of outcome - everyone has the facilities needed for fairly good life provided, negating the effect of chance events but also undermining the rewards for effort. LCS is a left-wing organization, so they'd go for the equality of outcome. Mix that with affirmative action, and what you get? Strictly enforced gender and race quotas all around the society!

[Jonathan S. Fox]

The death penalty is considered barbaric and never practiced. Abortion is legal. Individual privacy is sacred. Elections are publicly funded, and voting is by ranked list. Nuclear power is illegal. There are universal workers' rights and a high minimum wage. Industry is subject to zero-tolerance pollution regulations. Flag burning is legal.

With very few exceptions, L+ law descriptions are quite sane, and grounded in real demands made by Liberals. It doesn't mean you're batty and beyond the political spectrum, it just means you would have preferred Dennis Kucinich over Barack Obama. Your political objectives are fairly innocuous; it's the things you do to achieve them that make you crazy.

L+ women's rights is "Gender equality is universally respected." All gender biases in the game are removed. Half of all Elite Liberal politicians are women.

In my view, that's exactly what Liberals dream of in their heart of hearts, and that makes it exactly the right goal for the LCS.

[Kay12]

Of course the Liberals like gender equality, that's why they support affirmative action to ensure women's equality. However, since LCS views are reality, it could also be assumed that L+ society no longer needs those measures and gender equality happens as a result of natural change of HEART. I also realized that discussing this is pretty silly as the game only takes account gender for Supreme Court, Pres and the Cabinet, and has nothing but cosmetic effect.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

It is purely cosmetic, though a few other characters are more likely to be male as well, like CEOs, Football Coaches, Priests, and Corporate Managers. Others, like Secretaries and Yoga Instructors, are more likely to be female. I think those biases on both sides are reduced to nothing as women's rights becomes more liberal.

[Innominate]

Personally I think affirmative action would be more of an L policy than an L+ policy. At L, they're trying to reverse society's perception that one gender is better at a certain role. At L+, they don't need to. Kind of like how at L+ animal rights you get canine heroes; once you liberate people from the shackles of gender bias, society becomes magically balanced - somehow the different sex hormones stop having an effect, and a woman is as likely to enlist in the armed forces as a man, and the same for men in caring professions, etc.

In short, I tend to think of L+ laws as how they imagine the world actually works beneath the Conservative corruption, rather than some way of enforcing a liberal world.

[Kay12]

Well, the L+ law for race equality (or civil rights) states that racial equality is strictly enforced. Whether this means colorblindness, extreme prejudice against hate crimes or affirmative action takes to the extreme, I don't know, but maybe it's better if it's left for us to imagine.