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[Nikov]

Virex, I'm going to be honest and admit a teensy bit of Schadenfreude. I hope the problem gets under control, although I always anticipated the business dynamics of addictive substances would be inherently tainted with criminality. Furthermore, how does anyone anticipate massive tax revenues on legalized drugs? The industry is currently off the books and tax-free, unlike the oft-compared tobacco. Under-the-table drugs would continue to exist, only now instead of my neighbor growing pipe tobacco in his garden it will be cannibis. Hell, I think I'll throw out some poppies around the brickwork and sell the bulbs to junkies. What will the feds do, send me a terse letter about unclaimed income?

[Virex]

Over here they trash up your shop and burn your plants to a cinder. However, that's usually only a single harvest worth of damages so it doesn't really make a dent.

[Leafsnail]

Furthermore, how does anyone anticipate massive tax revenues on legalized drugs? The industry is currently off the books and tax-free, unlike the oft-compared tobacco. Under-the-table drugs would continue to exist, only now instead of my neighbor growing pipe tobacco in his garden it will be cannibis. Hell, I think I'll throw out some poppies around the brickwork and sell the bulbs to junkies. What will the feds do, send me a terse letter about unclaimed income?

If the government regulates quality/ conditions, there's a very real benefit to buying the legal taxed stuff (it won't be full of sawdust and it isn't as likely to kill you).  Like how you'd probably prefer to buy meat from a shop even if it's taxed to cost more than from some dodgy looking person on the street.

What Virex is describing sounds more like protection rackets, really.

[Tilla]

Furthermore, how does anyone anticipate massive tax revenues on legalized drugs? The industry is currently off the books and tax-free, unlike the oft-compared tobacco. Under-the-table drugs would continue to exist, only now instead of my neighbor growing pipe tobacco in his garden it will be cannibis. Hell, I think I'll throw out some poppies around the brickwork and sell the bulbs to junkies. What will the feds do, send me a terse letter about unclaimed income?

If the government regulates quality/ conditions, there's a very real benefit to buying the legal taxed stuff (it won't be full of sawdust and it isn't as likely to kill you).  Like how you'd probably prefer to buy meat from a shop even if it's taxed to cost more than from some dodgy looking person on the street.

What Virex is describing sounds more like protection rackets, really.

I don't know what you mean, I buy my meat entirely out of a guy's trenchcoat and I'm perfectly healthy.

[sluissa]

I don't know what you mean, I buy my meat entirely out of a guy's trenchcoat and I'm perfectly healthy.

Mmmm... Tubesteak.

In all seriousness though, I could see benefits to legalization of at least some of the drugs. Especially the softer ones. I don't see it happening anytime soon though.

I rarely even drink alcohol though, so I really have no stake in any of this other than the, "will crime go down?" aspect.

[scriver]

There's also the possibility of legalising it under a state monopoly, like (non-bar/restuarant/vineyard/other places like that) alcohol is in Sweden. It's working well for us. It would also mean bigger influence over where the stuff is bought from, meaning that we can make sure we're not funding some drug cartel or Afghani warlord, or any other of the countless types of druglords we don't want to make business with.

[Leafsnail]

Other than "will crime go down", there's also "Will jail space stop being wasted on nonviolent 'criminals'?".

[Nikov]

Furthermore, how does anyone anticipate massive tax revenues on legalized drugs? The industry is currently off the books and tax-free, unlike the oft-compared tobacco. Under-the-table drugs would continue to exist, only now instead of my neighbor growing pipe tobacco in his garden it will be cannibis. Hell, I think I'll throw out some poppies around the brickwork and sell the bulbs to junkies. What will the feds do, send me a terse letter about unclaimed income?

If the government regulates quality/ conditions, there's a very real benefit to buying the legal taxed stuff (it won't be full of sawdust and it isn't as likely to kill you).  Like how you'd probably prefer to buy meat from a shop even if it's taxed to cost more than from some dodgy looking person on the street.

However we're not talking about purchasing a domestic commodity like meat or butter, we're talking about intoxicating substances of varying levels of potency and selling it to addicts developing a tolerance and wanting a stronger fix. If the market demands stronger products but regulations prevent the demand from being met, the black market will still exist with its criminal element still intact.

Also a government monopoly on prolefeed? Hasn't anyone translated 1984 to Swedish?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

However we're not talking about purchasing a domestic commodity like meat or butter, we're talking about intoxicating substances of varying levels of potency and selling it to addicts developing a tolerance and wanting a stronger fix.

I hope you realize that your statement can apply to alcohol, and it being legal has not destoyed our society. In addition, some of the things that the war on drugs targets aren't even physically addictive.

If the market demands stronger products but regulations prevent the demand from being met, the black market will still exist with its criminal element still intact.

Right now, anyone using these substances is using the black market. The percentage of those who would resort to substances that cannot ever reach regulation isn't going to make up the entierty of the market, and the percentage that are that extreme can be dealt with by advocating rehabilitation and moderation for such individuals instead of what we do now (Which is throw them in increasingly overcrowded prisons on the taxpayer's dollar.). Do you really want to keep paying for all these people to be cared for once they're locked up for illegal drug use? There's also the matter of the sudden and catastrophic power vaccum that will result from organized crime suddenly losing a large portion of their profit base. Career criminals aren't excactly known for being peaceful to one another in the face of monetary deficit, and those that don't cut ties and run may very well end up dead by the hands of their former business partners.

[Vattic]

Nikov: I don't see why it would be any worse than the problem of black market alcohol. One thing to remember is that not all drugs come with huge addiction or tolerance.

Sort of Ninja'd.

[DJ]

Virex, I'm going to be honest and admit a teensy bit of Schadenfreude. I hope the problem gets under control, although I always anticipated the business dynamics of addictive substances would be inherently tainted with criminality. Furthermore, how does anyone anticipate massive tax revenues on legalized drugs? The industry is currently off the books and tax-free, unlike the oft-compared tobacco. Under-the-table drugs would continue to exist, only now instead of my neighbor growing pipe tobacco in his garden it will be cannibis. Hell, I think I'll throw out some poppies around the brickwork and sell the bulbs to junkies. What will the feds do, send me a terse letter about unclaimed income?

Isn't this basically tax evasion? And don't people get like 20 years for that?

As for the offended Americans, yeah, sure, some of you are very liberal, but they're completely irrelevant to USA's politics. Conservative votes are dominant by far.

[jester]

Furthermore, how does anyone anticipate massive tax revenues on legalized drugs? The industry is currently off the books and tax-free, unlike the oft-compared tobacco. Under-the-table drugs would continue to exist, only now instead of my neighbor growing pipe tobacco in his garden it will be cannibis. Hell, I think I'll throw out some poppies around the brickwork and sell the bulbs to junkies. What will the feds do, send me a terse letter about unclaimed income?

If the government regulates quality/ conditions, there's a very real benefit to buying the legal taxed stuff (it won't be full of sawdust and it isn't as likely to kill you).  Like how you'd probably prefer to buy meat from a shop even if it's taxed to cost more than from some dodgy looking person on the street.

However we're not talking about purchasing a domestic commodity like meat or butter, we're talking about intoxicating substances of varying levels of potency and selling it to addicts developing a tolerance and wanting a stronger fix. If the market demands stronger products but regulations prevent the demand from being met, the black market will still exist with its criminal element still intact.

Also a government monopoly on prolefeed? Hasn't anyone translated 1984 to Swedish?

That just isnt how the black market works (and you obviously dont hang out with alot of drug users, cause only a few actually work anything like that) the addicts would take twice as much if they had too, maybe homebrew some stuff, but given the choice, things that involve the cops would be avoided like the plague.  Also if its legal, it would be a hell of alot cheaper and there wouldnt be enough of a demand for there to be a serious criminal enterprise to be set up

edit: and another ninja, also 120000+ sigs in 17 hours

[Nikov]

Virex, I'm going to be honest and admit a teensy bit of Schadenfreude. I hope the problem gets under control, although I always anticipated the business dynamics of addictive substances would be inherently tainted with criminality. Furthermore, how does anyone anticipate massive tax revenues on legalized drugs? The industry is currently off the books and tax-free, unlike the oft-compared tobacco. Under-the-table drugs would continue to exist, only now instead of my neighbor growing pipe tobacco in his garden it will be cannibis. Hell, I think I'll throw out some poppies around the brickwork and sell the bulbs to junkies. What will the feds do, send me a terse letter about unclaimed income?

Isn't this basically tax evasion? And don't people get like 20 years for that?

Nah, the worst you get is a congressional censure.

Yes, I realize quite well my statement applies to alcohol, insofar as both are intoxicating substances. It could also apply to pornography or roller coaster adrenaline junkies. We are talking about legalizing drugs for the purpose of raising tax funds, regulating the product and eliminating black markets and crime. People still make bootleg moonshine at barrel proof and shoot you for trespassing their corner of the mountain over it, even though alcohol is perfectly legal. Alcohol was an established industry before prohibition and is one today, but currently illegal drugs are tied so deeply into gang violence and organized crime that I doubt they'll give up their market share without a few torched Mary Jane Marts and switching their smuggling operations to harder stuff.

Basically I have sincere doubts as to the practical implication and effectiveness of this well-meaning policy.

Jester I honestly don't know what cops have to do with it, and overdosing and homebrewing is yet another thing that can't be regulated away. And if its cheaper to get your hands on... ever see an alcoholic binge-drink? It isn't off the top shelf.

[Phmcw]

@Nikov, you'll grow a bit yourself, so what?
The aim of the law is to suppress revenue to gangs by making drugs less expensive, help the addicts instead of punishing them and generate revenues thanks to taxes. But right now the benefits from buying opium and selling heroin is something like 10000% (no sources, from memory). You could grow tobacco, brew alcohol,... or any other heavily taxed substances, what would he difference be?
The thing is, drugs and prostitutions are both injecting billions of dollars into organized crime, this have to stop. I don't expect this initiative to work, though, because said organized crime won't sit on their thumbs while you intend to starve them to death.

[Leafsnail]

However we're not talking about purchasing a domestic commodity like meat or butter, we're talking about intoxicating substances of varying levels of potency and selling it to addicts developing a tolerance and wanting a stronger fix. If the market demands stronger products but regulations prevent the demand from being met, the black market will still exist with its criminal element still intact.

As you later say, this could apply to almost anything.  This is an argument against capitalism as a whole rather than legalising drugs.

The regulations I had in mind were more "Have a specified level of potentency" rather than a limit in any case (since street drugs randomly changing their strength is a major factor in overdosing).  Sure, there'll be some people who risk death in order to get a cheaper/ better fix, but I don't see how it could be worse than what we have now.