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Author Topic: Second fortress  (Read 7466 times)

Manic Typist

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Re: Second fortress
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2011, 05:26:56 pm »

Good to know.

Another question:

So, this bear comes along and tears one of my guys apart, but I didn't notice it was going down because he shared the first name of another guy who was being attacked by a goblin snatcher.

So I activate my marksdwarves and hunt that named bear down. Now I want to butcher it, skin it, all that jazz.

Yet when I set the butcher shop to butcher, it says there are no nearby unrotten animals.

How do I put this body to use?
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Manic Typist

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Re: Second fortress
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2011, 11:08:31 pm »

Goblin snatcher. First dwarf, allegedly a Macedwarf, attacks him. Snatcher slashes him in the foot, severing an artery, dwarf falls.

Another dwarf comes up, also misses or gets parried, gets stabbed in the foot and a tendon severs, he also falls down.

By this time a marksdwarf has shown up and puts a bolt or two in the snatcher, followed by...

A Recruit punching the goblin in the head and completely destroying the skull.


Well! Now I get to figure out how to make my hospital work.
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Manic Typist

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Re: Second fortress
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2011, 10:59:03 pm »

Losing 7 dwarves to kill four goblins was...frustrating, even if one was a civilian.

Killing my first titan, albeit a seemingly incompetent one, taking no casualties except for perhaps a war dog or two, was much more satisfying.

Is there seriously nothing I can do with this titan body? I would love to put its corpse to work....
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Darkmere

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Re: Second fortress
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2011, 01:44:26 am »


Is there seriously nothing I can do with this titan body? I would love to put its corpse to work....

If it's organic, it can be butchered once it's on a refuse stockpile. You may have to manually queue a butcher order at the butcher's shop.  If it's made of something like vomit, stone, jade, or something like that, the corpse can't be used for anything.

However, the best idea I've seen was one guy around the forums (if you read this, take credit where it's due) made an "unnatural history museum" with all his invader corpses, behind glass.
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

Girlinhat

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Re: Second fortress
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2011, 02:53:16 am »

Military is a horrific beast.  Debatably, in order of difficulty, are stockpiles, stairs, and military.  One of my friends gave up DF due to stairs.

Military basically works in three parts.  Squads, Equipment, and Schedules.

I assume you've made a squad already.  This part is very easy.  You grab a militia commander/captain, then assign dwarves from a list.  Dwarf Therapist helps here, if you don't already have it.  Assign nicknames to your soldiers, like I name mine "Axe" and "Spear".  So when I make another squad, I don't get the same dwarves and mess everything up.

Equipment is also rather easy.  You can manually assign equipment via the equipment screen, or you can make a uniform and then assign that uniform to multiple units.  Once a uniform is assigned, it can be modified for the individuals, for example if you wanted to add a red hood for your commander but leave your other soldiers hood-less.  Modifying an existing uniform does NOT change that uniform for anyone using it, you have to re-assign them the uniform for the changes to take effect.

Schedules is the tough part.  They exist in two parts.  Schedules and Alerts.  These are passive orders, standing orders like "train some" or "patrol this dirt".  First, set up a schedule.  The default is "nothing" and "everyone train".  These are both fairly lame.  First tone the training down to 5 or so via the schedule editing screen, you can copy-paste for every month for quick changes.  The schedule determines what your squad is doing every month, and you can determine how many people are doing what.  In general, I'll set 5 to station at the front gate, 2 to train (which promotes sparring sessions, the holy grail of training), and the other 3 to sleep/eat/sort socks/whatever.  Then, you need to activate that schedule.  Alerts are basically different schedules.  If you notice your dwarves are training a lot but they're so high-skill they're not improving much, then you can change their alert to something less intensive, and put them more on patrol and less on guard.  Or if there's been a major battle, you may need to put your squad inactive so they can take a break to avoid tantruming.  You usually won't change your alert status, but you can give direct orders to military that override the alerts entirely, so you can order your soldiers to stand guard even if they're scheduled to train.  A good idea is to have a heavy guard in the late fall months, stationed or patrolling near the trade depot, as goblins like to ambush when caravans arrive.  You can set them to patrol near your gate during fall, and to train the rest of the year, by setting their monthly activity in the schedule.

The important thing to note, is that civilians have an alert status as well.  All civilians share this alert, and the only effect it has is to restrict them to a burrow.  This is very good.  I play with Fortress Defense, modded to remove all ambushers and babysnatchers.  The only enemies to come to my fort are sieges, which are revealed on the map's edge and stay there for a little while before rushing in.  Thus, for me, I have a burrow defined (from the "w" menu) that includes the entire inner fort.  In the alert menu (m - a) you can go to the desired alert, for me I use the Active/Training alert, and then on the right-hand column press enter on the burrow you want.  This means, when this alert is selected, all civilians will be restricted to the area defined by this burrow.  Any dwarf under military command, either direct order or standing schedule, will ignore this burrow, but as soon as they go off duty they will respect the burrow.

So, for me, I get a message "A vile force of darkness approaches!"  It pauses for me, and while paused I hit m - a to go to alerts, then activate Active/Training for civilians, where it shows the [CIV] beside it.  I then zoom to my front gate, and s - A - B - m to order my first and second squads to move outside the front gate.  When the enemy arrives, I lock the front door, so that just in case my soldiers loose, or they chase after someone and another enemy squad slips in while they're running around, my civilians are safe.

Overall, the most challenging part is alerts and schedules.  You just have to realize that a schedule is just that, a list of passive orders, and an alert is a way to select which schedule is being used.

Noir

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Re: Second fortress
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2011, 07:32:13 am »

Good to know.

Another question:

So, this bear comes along and tears one of my guys apart, but I didn't notice it was going down because he shared the first name of another guy who was being attacked by a goblin snatcher.

So I activate my marksdwarves and hunt that named bear down. Now I want to butcher it, skin it, all that jazz.

Yet when I set the butcher shop to butcher, it says there are no nearby unrotten animals.

How do I put this body to use?

This is something I learned recently - apparently, butcher shops WILL automatically take organic corpses to butcher them, but only if they are on a Refuse/Corpse Stockpile. So first a dwarf with the appropriate Hauling job will move the body to a corpse stockpile (IF there is room), then another dwarf with the Butcher job will take it from the pile to the butcher workshop.

I noticed this when, inspecting my food stock, I realised I have HUNDREDS of Forgotten Beast meat pieces. The next time I killed one, I noticed someone hauling (slooooooowly) its body to the corpse pile, and then someone else butchering it :)

Just remember to atom-smash all the useless body parts once in a while - I have one such devices just next to the corpse stockpile (outside, for hygienity reasons).
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Naked dwarves remove the need to produce more clothing, which means more of your pig tails can be brewed into booze.
I think this is less a problem and more an expression of dwarven priorities.

Girlinhat

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Re: Second fortress
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2011, 08:57:40 am »

I just make a huge refuse pile.  The junk parts degrade over time, so I let them air out.  I also build no less than a half dozen butcher shops, but that's because I modded my ethics and my dwarves will butcher, eat, and wear goblins and elves.  Being in FD, my military gets complimentary Dark Stranger Cloaks, 'cause I can.

Manic Typist

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Re: Second fortress
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2011, 03:07:45 pm »

Thank you, thank you very much.

I'll enlarge my corpse/refuse pile. Can it still be used if it has already turned to a skeleton? At least for a totem?

I'll also work on refining my schedules. I just sort of assumed that having 10 dwarves training was the ideal. People sparring, people watching sparring sessions and demonstrations, people doing individual combat drills.

Perhaps I should reduce the number so as to ensure sparring, yes?

Another big problem has been in equipping my dwarves. I'm finally figuring out how to get a metal industry running (I think...) but wish I could find some magma to expedite the process. I would really like some steel everything on all my guys.

I haven't captured anyone for this fortress yet, but question- I've read how to DISARM/disrobe people in cages.... but can/how do I arm them? If I capture a goblin skulker and want to maximize his utility as a mobile sparring target.... can I give him some good armor and a training weapon?


Girlin- why did your friend quit over stairs? I think I understand them....except for what up/down stairs are for as opposed to other kinds I suppose. Perhaps they punch a hole above and below and are  useful for establishing mining orders well ahead of time? Need to research this.

What I find annoying is that, so far, I can't get RID of stairs that aren't constructed.
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Girlinhat

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Re: Second fortress
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2011, 03:19:29 pm »

Just start digging down, you'll find magma easily enough.  When you hit warm stone, dig out into a small square, then channel down to place forges atop the channeled out squares.  Remember that you can place the impassable square of a workshop over the magma, so the darkened out upper middle tile of a smelter can plug over that new hole and prevent anyone from falling down, or from crawling up.  A small scale magma forge is easy and safe.

If you're desperate for equipment, use anything on hand.  Get those magma forges up, and smelt everything.  Tetrahedrite can produce copper armor and silver hammers, or just copper weapons.  If you're short on ore, leather armor and copper weapons, or stolen iron goblin weapons.  The idea is to get your dwarves into anything you can, lower quality is better than nothing.  Butcher a dozen dogs and make sets of leather armor and helms, and wooden or leather shields - these block just as well as steel.  A shield and some skill will go a lot further for protection than modest armor, dump them in a pit with a disarmed but still armored goblin, and let them bash shields.  Get their dodge and shield skill up, which makes them nigh-invincible.

You cannot re-arm a goblin.  In theory, they MAY attempt to equip nearby equipment, but I don't think this has ever been done.  They may grab something nearby and hit things with it more commonly, but not very common.

Noir

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Re: Second fortress
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2011, 03:20:39 pm »

Thank you, thank you very much.

I'll enlarge my corpse/refuse pile. Can it still be used if it has already turned to a skeleton? At least for a totem?

I think you can get bones out of a skeleton.

I'll also work on refining my schedules. I just sort of assumed that having 10 dwarves training was the ideal. People sparring, people watching sparring sessions and demonstrations, people doing individual combat drills.

Perhaps I should reduce the number so as to ensure sparring, yes?

Indeed; I have my melee dwarves in squads of 3, of which 2 are required at all times.

Another big problem has been in equipping my dwarves. I'm finally figuring out how to get a metal industry running (I think...) but wish I could find some magma to expedite the process. I would really like some steel everything on all my guys.

I dug down to magma before starting working metal; this is recommended, unless you have a LOT of wood/coal.

I haven't captured anyone for this fortress yet, but question- I've read how to DISARM/disrobe people in cages.... but can/how do I arm them? If I capture a goblin skulker and want to maximize his utility as a mobile sparring target.... can I give him some good armor and a training weapon?

I don't think this is even possible.

What I find annoying is that, so far, I can't get RID of stairs that aren't constructed.

You can; just remove building (d -> n).
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Naked dwarves remove the need to produce more clothing, which means more of your pig tails can be brewed into booze.
I think this is less a problem and more an expression of dwarven priorities.

Girlinhat

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Re: Second fortress
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2011, 03:22:43 pm »

You can Remove Up Stairs/Ramps as well.

Noir

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Re: Second fortress
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2011, 03:23:32 pm »

Indeed, an a downway stair is basically little more than a hole in the floor, so if you build a floor over it it will be gone.

I wonder if you can channel a carved downward stairs slot - I never tried that...
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 03:36:15 pm by Noir »
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Naked dwarves remove the need to produce more clothing, which means more of your pig tails can be brewed into booze.
I think this is less a problem and more an expression of dwarven priorities.

Darkmere

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Re: Second fortress
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2011, 08:57:58 pm »

Regarding bones from skeletons:

Dwarves refuse to butcher sentients, and that's how you turn a corpse into bones. I've heard it takes/used to take 15 or so years for a corpse to decay into nothing but usable bones. Good luck keeping anything remotely manageable, refuse pile wise, for that long during constant sieges.

In .25, only once I've seen a little dwarven girl take a mood and drag a goblin corpse into a crafts shop and butcher it for bones. BUT... limbs that get hacked off will turn into small stacks of 1 or 2 bones that can be used just fine. Solution: make a refuse stockpile that only accepts bones (but accepts all types of bone) and takes from your surface pile and butcher's pile, next to the bonecarver's.
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

Girlinhat

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Re: Second fortress
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2011, 11:22:03 pm »

A lot of information is from 40d, and no longer applies.  Previously, a creature would die, leaving a corpse.  This corpse would become a skeleton and/or a stack of bones after decomposing.  These bones could be used easily.  This is what spurned the infamous Mermaid Farm, where breeders would airdrown a mermaid, let the corpse rot, and then take the skull and bones for insanely high-value crafting.

Currently, a creature dies, leaving a corpse.  This corpse rots into a skeleton.  This skeleton disappears after a few decades.  Nowhere along the process is it made usable.

HOWEVER, body parts that are separated from the body before/during death, will be butchered.  An axe squad can hack a limb off a goblin, and your dwarves will produce some bones and meat from this arm.  You can toss a creature down a long pit, and the body will be unusable but the splattered limbs will be harvestable.  This lead to the entirely more infamous Mermaid Farm that tossed newborn mermaids off a cliff to collect their arms and hopefully their skull, letting the rest of the corpse litter the killing pit as the stacks grew higher.  This was even without much value, mermaid bones were nerfed to 1 value.  Players just did this for the hell of the hunt.

You can mod your ethics for a new world, not an existing one, to change [MAKE_TROPHY_SENTIENT:ACCEPTABLE] and the other tokens nearby.  This allows your dwarves to butcher and eat anything except their own dwarves.  Elf leather backpacks, menacing with spikes of human bone, containing several goblin tallow roasts.

Manic Typist

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Re: Second fortress
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2011, 08:58:36 am »

As an aside, reading the many references to carp finally helped me understand why it's a good thing that crossbow bolts have to be manually reclaimed.

Because they sometimes land in places that we don't want our dwarves to go.

Also, next time I think someone is going to go berserk due to a mood, before I wall him in his workshop, I think I'll try to put a cage trap in there.

Then, when I have some goblin prisoners, I can release a berserk dwarf on them!


Edit: Two quick questions.
1) A dwarf is butchering the titan's corpse. It seems to be taking forever. Why? I thought butchering was an instant process. The workshop says *CLT* but the only thing there is the corpse.

2) A dwarf went into a secretive mood.... and went immediately to sit down at the dining hall. I'm no worried he's going to go berserk without ever even TRYING to use a workshop. Can they go insane because you don't have a workshop they want? I disassembled my only glass workshop after the last one demanded raw green glass (and took over that shop) but refused to make any even though I thought I had some. So I concluded I didn't have any sand and thought if I dismantled it I could nip that in the bud.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 10:08:15 am by Manic Typist »
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