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Author Topic: Religion  (Read 34174 times)

counting

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Re: Religion
« Reply #480 on: June 04, 2011, 10:53:32 am »

Every body is talking Zen-ly  8)

Let's move on. 
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Currency is not excessive, but a necessity.
The stark assumption:
Individuals trade with each other only through the intermediation of specialist traders called: shops.
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The challenge to an evolutionary formation is this: it must provide an analysis that at least comes close to matching the power of the neoclassical theory to predict and illuminate the macro-economic patterns of growth

G-Flex

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Re: Religion
« Reply #481 on: June 04, 2011, 11:05:28 am »

Something I'd like to point out to everyone:


You can prove nothing but your own existence. Everything else could be a hallucination.

You can't prove anything about the nature of your own existence, either, if you want to get super-technical. For all you know, the majority of your mind's functions could be done by some computer in Nashville and beamed into your head, or any other number of possibilities.
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counting

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Re: Religion
« Reply #482 on: June 05, 2011, 01:13:56 am »

Religion thread sinking, GOD HELP US  :D
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Currency is not excessive, but a necessity.
The stark assumption:
Individuals trade with each other only through the intermediation of specialist traders called: shops.
Nelson and Winter:
The challenge to an evolutionary formation is this: it must provide an analysis that at least comes close to matching the power of the neoclassical theory to predict and illuminate the macro-economic patterns of growth

Hiiri

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Re: Religion
« Reply #483 on: June 05, 2011, 02:02:02 am »

I think we converted them all :'(





:P
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Criptfeind

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Re: Religion
« Reply #484 on: June 05, 2011, 02:25:00 am »

Who all?
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Hiiri

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Re: Religion
« Reply #485 on: June 05, 2011, 02:27:08 am »

All who oppose the crushing fist of atheism. Conform, heathen!
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Criptfeind

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Re: Religion
« Reply #486 on: June 05, 2011, 02:28:43 am »

Who said I was a heathen?
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Hiiri

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Re: Religion
« Reply #487 on: June 05, 2011, 02:30:18 am »

Me. Here, have a cup of tea!
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counting

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Re: Religion
« Reply #488 on: June 05, 2011, 01:41:18 pm »

I think I'll make a eastern religion thread. And people can talk about Zenist there.
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Currency is not excessive, but a necessity.
The stark assumption:
Individuals trade with each other only through the intermediation of specialist traders called: shops.
Nelson and Winter:
The challenge to an evolutionary formation is this: it must provide an analysis that at least comes close to matching the power of the neoclassical theory to predict and illuminate the macro-economic patterns of growth

darkflagrance

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Re: Religion
« Reply #489 on: June 05, 2011, 06:22:57 pm »

I think I'll make a eastern religion thread. And people can talk about Zenist there.

It seems like most people were ignoring you in this thread. Zenism and Buddhism aren't sufficiently controversial or well-known/defended to spark long discussions about killing babies and murdering homosexuals :P
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Re: Religion
« Reply #490 on: June 05, 2011, 06:28:49 pm »


It seems like most people were ignoring you in this thread. Zenism and Buddhism aren't sufficiently controversial or well-known/defended to spark long discussions about killing babies and murdering homosexuals :P
[/quote]

I figured counting's "zen" comment was referring to the thread's gradual degeneration into Matrix-style Epistemology.  Not that that isn't inevitable in this type of discussion...
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It is a world built on pillars that descend into hell itself, yet there is no heaven above to look to. A world where pain and death await all, with little to no salvation from the horrors of the world. There is no true peace, no true saviour. Dwarf fortress is a game about an eternal struggle that you can never, ever win.

Also, valkyries are cooler then angels...

counting

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Re: Religion
« Reply #491 on: June 05, 2011, 06:58:28 pm »

I figured counting's "zen" comment was referring to the thread's gradual degeneration into Matrix-style Epistemology.  Not that that isn't inevitable in this type of discussion...

One simply says one's leaving. Oh wait, one is leaving? where am I?
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Currency is not excessive, but a necessity.
The stark assumption:
Individuals trade with each other only through the intermediation of specialist traders called: shops.
Nelson and Winter:
The challenge to an evolutionary formation is this: it must provide an analysis that at least comes close to matching the power of the neoclassical theory to predict and illuminate the macro-economic patterns of growth

Glowcat

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Re: Religion
« Reply #492 on: June 05, 2011, 07:54:59 pm »

I love some of the philosophy behind Buddhism and Taoism but oppose their acquired religious elements. In fact, I don't consider the religions of Buddhism and Taoism (at least on the Zhuangzi side) to be following the essence behind either of those. One cannot achieve enlightenment when chained by traditions or possessing an inability to see the world AS IT IS without hating it so much that one creates illusions. That is the path of self-inflicted suffering.

I might not even be a non-believer today if I didn't have an epiphany that allowed me to shed my previous inhibitions which had kept me a sort of vaguely spiritual pseudo-agnostic. A state of emptiness allowed me to see the world again with fresh eyes and finally remove my fears, such as a fear of real death - not fake afterlife death.

« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 08:00:44 pm by Glowcat »
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darkflagrance

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Re: Religion
« Reply #493 on: June 05, 2011, 08:17:58 pm »

I love some of the philosophy behind Buddhism and Taoism but oppose their acquired religious elements. In fact, I don't consider the religions of Buddhism and Taoism (at least on the Zhuangzi side) to be following the essence behind either of those. One cannot achieve enlightenment when chained by traditions or possessing an inability to see the world AS IT IS without hating it so much that one creates illusions. That is the path of self-inflicted suffering.

To be fair, some of the books I've studied of Buddhism and Daoism suggest that the traditions of the Daodejing and the Zhuangzi were originally separate, and were only brought together as one school called "Daoism" during a later dynasty.

A historian of the Han also wrote that while he had tried to find a historical basis for the philosopher who wrote the Daodejing, he had also found that very early on, that philosopher's memory, if it had ever existed, had been completely overwritten by the traditions of Daoist mystics who claimed him as their tradition's central figure.

So even going back to the very beginnings of "Daoism" there's no certainty that the texts and traditions we today assume to be part of it were really meant to be associated together at all, or even derive from the same fundamental beliefs.
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counting

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Re: Religion
« Reply #494 on: June 05, 2011, 09:53:28 pm »

I love some of the philosophy behind Buddhism and Taoism but oppose their acquired religious elements. In fact, I don't consider the religions of Buddhism and Taoism (at least on the Zhuangzi side) to be following the essence behind either of those. One cannot achieve enlightenment when chained by traditions or possessing an inability to see the world AS IT IS without hating it so much that one creates illusions. That is the path of self-inflicted suffering.

To be fair, some of the books I've studied of Buddhism and Daoism suggest that the traditions of the Daodejing and the Zhuangzi were originally separate, and were only brought together as one school called "Daoism" during a later dynasty.

A historian of the Han also wrote that while he had tried to find a historical basis for the philosopher who wrote the Daodejing, he had also found that very early on, that philosopher's memory, if it had ever existed, had been completely overwritten by the traditions of Daoist mystics who claimed him as their tradition's central figure.

So even going back to the very beginnings of "Daoism" there's no certainty that the texts and traditions we today assume to be part of it were really meant to be associated together at all, or even derive from the same fundamental beliefs.

At little story about Laozi who alleged write Daodejing, once taught Confucius about what's Dao at the time Confucius is about 50 years old. And generally believed that's the sources of Confucius pharse, 五十知天命, - When you are 50, you will know the fate of your life given by the universe.

And Laozi is often used to refer the author, and the book itself. And Zhuangzi as will, the name of the author and the book. And Zhuangzi is an actual historic figure. And a reason why we can't sure about the writing about some old books is due to the language barrier. Chinese characters are very different from region to region before the unification in 221 BC by the first emperor. And the next dynasty - Han trying to collect as much as old texts as possible, and written down in the more modern characters invented in that period. (Basically remain the same for the next 2000 years, and people today, like me can recognized them no problem). But many books were lost during the war between 2 dynasties. And only through some books hidden for century. They are able to documented them. But there are hundreds of years went by (4 to 5 century), those writing no long easily recognizable, so many meanings has to be guessed. Not intentionally altered, people simply couldn't make sense of it. Imagine you are reading a philosophy book written in medieval English, without any references.

A comparison of old characters and new:
At the time between 3 ~ 8 century B.C

After A.D this one 153 AD 乙瑛碑
original picture

since people don't used to negative words written in white, I put it back to positive, the original is an impression (拓本), since ancient writing survived today, are writing carved in stone monument. And the impression will be negative picture like in photography.

Compare to modern writing
You don't see much change in 1858 years
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 10:11:43 pm by counting »
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Currency is not excessive, but a necessity.
The stark assumption:
Individuals trade with each other only through the intermediation of specialist traders called: shops.
Nelson and Winter:
The challenge to an evolutionary formation is this: it must provide an analysis that at least comes close to matching the power of the neoclassical theory to predict and illuminate the macro-economic patterns of growth
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