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[CJ1145]

I am an atheist and I have a serious question for Theists, How Have you come to believe in a all-powerful being?

What are your reasons? and Rational?

To answer the original question, as I am currently unfamiliar with this thread, I believe in God (as I am a Christian, Lutheran to be precise) it was mostly a result of asking questions from my local church, and a bit of my own research. I have some personal views on how the universe works, and whether they're right or wrong Christianity matches up with them. That, plus a few personal experiences that I would not list as scientific proof, but are compelling enough to me to put faith in.

[counting]

[ (IIRC, the stance of most denominations puts religious figures such as Gotama Buddha and Avalokiteśvara in a role loosely equivalent to Catholic saints, but with the guiding principle behind their actions being the ideals of enlightenment and tranquility rather than a personified deity),

There are many branches of Buddhism, and its root from Brahmanism (Vedism). The idea of Brahma being one and the same with the universe and its avatars represents every entities in the world, and Buddha breaks (yes breaks not broke Buddha still teaches us, it never dies, it's always happening) it. Along with Jainism, it believes that everyone is ones own Brahma, and with the idea of cycle of life (Samsara) and souls travels from one life to another, Jainism believes everyone all eventually becomes Brahma(s?), and the world was not create by anything at all, it just happens, and karma drives the actions and reactions and forming the world, explained why where are difference castes, simply someone's soul travel the worlds longer than others. In Vedism there is one and only one Brahma who create the world, very much like monotheism except it doesn't manifest it's true true form, since it's true form is universe itself, so becomes one with the universe is the top priority, and this view effects its offshoots modern Hinduism.

But Buddha goes even further, (break the illusions as it is called), it comes later than Jainism, and tells the story that even the soul is a result of karma, and from the first karma comes out of no where (like a big bang), the accumulations of karma creates the world, and also those in the universe, and since there existed only karma (like matters and energy are the same, so the very first energy from the big bang creates all the thing around us, but in the end they are all just energy), there is no actual soul, actual you. And the purpose of becoming Buddha (a concept I think borrowed from Jainism) is to understand this false illusions, so only enlightenment remains. But what's after that is unspeakable, indescribably, only those who being there knows. But everyone else who has not reach that enlightenment will need to stay in the cycle of life, because 'your' karma, since you didn't realize there is no 'you'. Sounds puzzling? They are, and they meant to be like that, all we are all Buddha now, or aren't we already? Just didn't realized it yet. And Deities? God? Superman? they are all real, or not real, as superpower being who stuck in the universe just like humans, (maybe in a different plain field), and Buddha is beyond all that, or doesn't exist in the first place at all. (More word games, and they will make your head hurt). It's called a philosophy of Buddhism, big difference with what is practiced between common peoples. And the most easy way is to find a good teacher/master and hopefully he travels the path of enlightenment far enough and can group everyone together and achieve enlightenment (go to heaven! ya! Cheaters!)

Taoism seems to be more concerned with the guiding principles behind the cosmos and the meaning of life (combined with a secondary theme of how to live effectively yet without being a controlling douchebag) than with any deity that may have established or been established by this principle or with mortal or formerly mortal religious figures (to the point where the name of Taoism's most famous and influential religious philosopher has actually been lost to history (he is now known only by the honorific Lao Tzu ("the old master"))).

The Tao in Taoism, is 道, the way, the path towards everything, you need to travel the way. The right way, the wrong way, or just simply choose what ever ways in front of you, or don't choose a way is a way. Doing nothing and simply rest (perfects! dwarfs will love it). And since its about searching, the practices are very importance, and solution are often very practical (and dwarfy!) If you want to win the next lottery, take that ticket and wishes very hard in front of the deity who controls money. And through varies simple activities, like draw straws, dropping a pair of woodcrafts (擲筊), or burning fake money to bribe the deity (I'm NOT kidding!), you will be granted your wishes, and good luck. I know I know there are some not so dwarfy practices, but for kids and outsiders, they are sometimes just too amusement to help it. And if your wishes didn't come true. It's OK, FAIL is FUN!!! Try it again, you must not paying attention enough, or not giving enough fake bribes, or the luck is there but you just didn't find it, or ... , OK, it's all part of the way. Most important thing is to have FUN, no faith.

We should promote Taoism in DF!

[counting]

I am an atheist and I have a serious question for Theists, How Have you come to believe in a all-powerful being?

What are your reasons? and Rational?

To answer the original question, as I am currently unfamiliar with this thread, I believe in God (as I am a Christian, Lutheran to be precise) it was mostly a result of asking questions from my local church, and a bit of my own research. I have some personal views on how the universe works, and whether they're right or wrong Christianity matches up with them. That, plus a few personal experiences that I would not list as scientific proof, but are compelling enough to me to put faith in.

I am more interested in how you acted accordingly with that faith. And what's your practices different from other factions and branches (Sorry I like history, and want to know how things work, or not workings). For example what's your view toward another religion like Buddhism, or something you might complete alien with like Taoism? Will you deems the believes as not the same so it must be corrected, or you will try to find the common practices and believes if possible, and realize we are still brothers and sisters eternally as in heaven and on earth?   

[counting]

I have an experience when I am young, and there is an phenomena in Taiwan, that young western Mormonism missionary will ride on bicycles on the street and talked to people trying to spread the religion. I was one time being asked by them, (they are so common, you will at least running into them once or twice in a couple years). They asked me if I believed in God. Oh! Wrong targets, pales! I can talk all day about the philosophy and history, and practice in our society and in the past, and what's their function, and lalala..., after several awkward moments past, they said "so... you do believe in god?" And I realized that it's a lot of waste of both our time, since none of us really listen to what each others are saying. So I just said good day, and I believing in their good effort on trying so hard.

So since I am a much better English speaker now. (Those Mormons are GOOD, and they speak Chinese). I want to asked what's your opinion about Mormonism, and your idea of missionaries activities, will you try to convert other people in other religion?

[CJ1145]

To answer the original question, as I am currently unfamiliar with this thread, I believe in God(as I am a Christian, Lutheran to be precise) it was mostly a result of asking questions from my local church, and a bit of my own research. I have some personal views on how the universe works, and whether they're right or wrong Christianity matches up with them. That, plus a few personal experiences that I would not list as scientific proof, but are compelling enough to me to put faith in.

I am more interested in how you acted accordingly with that faith. And what's your practices different from other factions and branches (Sorry I like history, and want to know how things work, or not workings). For example what's your view toward another religion like Buddhism, or something you might complete alien with like Taoism? Will you deems the believes as not the same so it must be corrected, or you will try to find the common practices and believes if possible, and realize we are still brothers and sisters eternally as in heaven and on earth?

Well, that varies. I know less about Lutheranism as a whole than I'd like, but my time to research it is limited. Basically it's a branch of Christianity that broke off from Roman Catholicism and recognizes Martin Luther as its namesake and founder, and tries to follow his teachings in accordance with the Bible. While the Bible is the be-all tool for Lutherans (at least me and the ones I know), the actual education of children is combined with book originally penned by Luther, the Small Catechism. He also wrote the Large Catechism, intended to teach clergymen on leading their congregations. As I'm only 17, and a member of the church for 3 years, I know relatively little about the proceedings and am still learning the specifics.

My views on other religions are in my own mind complicated, but I don't know if it translates in communication. I am fine with people practicing whatever religion they wish to, or not practicing one at all. If someone is Buddhist I hope they reach enlightenment. If he follows Islam I would gladly give a donation for his trip to Mecca. Do I believe they are correct paths? Well, that's a bit more complicated. A major tenet of the Christian faith is that our God, or YHWH, or Jehovah, or Christ, or whatever you may call him, is the one true god. So believing any other paths lead to salvation/nirvana/heaven/etc. kind of doesn't fit with my belief. That doesn't mean I'll criticize anyone's beliefs, though, and I'm open to discussion about my faith and theirs whenever.

[counting]

My views on other religions are in my own mind complicated, but I don't know if it translates in communication. I am fine with people practicing whatever religion they wish to, or not practicing one at all. If someone is Buddhist I hope they reach enlightenment. If he follows Islam I would gladly give a donation for his trip to Mecca. Do I believe they are correct paths? Well, that's a bit more complicated. A major tenet of the Christian faith is that our God, or YHWH, or Jehovah, or Christ, or whatever you may call him, is the one true god. So believing any other paths lead to salvation/nirvana/heaven/etc. kind of doesn't fit with my belief. That doesn't mean I'll criticize anyone's beliefs, though, and I'm open to discussion about my faith and theirs whenever.

So let's say hypothetically God resided in the "heaven" (Do you believe in heaven exist? as concurrent to our world?) is true. Since in Taoism, they also believe in heaven, and many deities lived in there, (also in hell). But there is no central almighty GOD running everything, rather like a bureaucratic government, every deities has their jobs and specialty. There is however a highest level deity, like the ranks in a company, there is a CEO. And that deity's job is to manage all the other deities. ('HE' also has a wife too, but lower in rank than him, I'll skip the topic of the marriage problems in heaven). Will you consider that perhaps both views of the heaven are correct, but only difference because of perspective? The highest ranking deity is actually equal to God, and the others are played by angels. Simply because God loves us human all, and what us to feel at ease in the belief with the scenario we see fit and comfortable? Or the images and ways of the God are beyond comprehension, so there is no way to tell at all? Or there is only one true right description is right, but we just don't know?

[Bohandas]

To answer the original question, as I am currently unfamiliar with this thread, I believe in God(as I am a Christian, Lutheran to be precise) it was mostly a result of asking questions from my local church, and a bit of my own research. I have some personal views on how the universe works, and whether they're right or wrong Christianity matches up with them. That, plus a few personal experiences that I would not list as scientific proof, but are compelling enough to me to put faith in.

I am more interested in how you acted accordingly with that faith. And what's your practices different from other factions and branches (Sorry I like history, and want to know how things work, or not workings). For example what's your view toward another religion like Buddhism, or something you might complete alien with like Taoism? Will you deems the believes as not the same so it must be corrected, or you will try to find the common practices and believes if possible, and realize we are still brothers and sisters eternally as in heaven and on earth?

Well, that varies. I know less about Lutheranism as a whole than I'd like, but my time to research it is limited. Basically it's a branch of Christianity that broke off from Roman Catholicism and recognizes Martin Luther as its namesake and founder, and tries to follow his teachings in accordance with the Bible. While the Bible is the be-all tool for Lutherans (at least me and the ones I know), the actual education of children is combined with book originally penned by Luther, the Small Catechism. He also wrote the Large Catechism, intended to teach clergymen on leading their congregations. As I'm only 17, and a member of the church for 3 years, I know relatively little about the proceedings and am still learning the specifics.

My views on other religions are in my own mind complicated, but I don't know if it translates in communication. I am fine with people practicing whatever religion they wish to, or not practicing one at all. If someone is Buddhist I hope they reach enlightenment. If he follows Islam I would gladly give a donation for his trip to Mecca. Do I believe they are correct paths? Well, that's a bit more complicated. A major tenet of the Christian faith is that our God, or YHWH, or Jehovah, or Christ, or whatever you may call him, is the one true god. So believing any other paths lead to salvation/nirvana/heaven/etc. kind of doesn't fit with my belief. That doesn't mean I'll criticize anyone's beliefs, though, and I'm open to discussion about my faith and theirs whenever.

Not to nitpick, but I feel compelled to point out that the other two major western faiths (Judaism and Islam) technically worship the same god as Christianity (Although^* they maintain that he has only one true form, whereas Christianity maintains that he has three^**).


^* In addition to vairous other differences in teachings which, in general, are concerned more with the instructions/commands/will of God, rather than the nature of God

^** This is a simplified/summarized explanation of this particular bit of belief/dogma.

[counting]

^** This is a simplified/summarized explanation of this particular bit of belief/dogma.

What's the long version? I love text wall.

[lemon10]

Counting, don't double/triple post. If you want to add something after you already made your post then edit the original one.

[RedKing]

This thread just got a lot more interesting to me, as someone who was raised Lutheran (Missouri Synod), broke from the Church, and converted to Taoism 20 years ago. (Initially daojia [Philosophical Taoism], but with time I've added more and more daojiao [Religious Taoism], with all the attendant oddness it brings.)

I actually felt perfectly normal and earnest when I went to a temple in Hangzhou and made a donation and prayed before a statue of the god of Mt. Taishan to ask for a safe passage on a planned pilgrimage to the mountain. I wound up not being able to get a train and headed on to Beijing instead. For all I know, I would have fallen off or been bitten by a poisonous snake, and this was my request being granted. It didn't feel like an empty outcome.

It's been a weird sort of inner dialogue over the years, between the Western, highly rational, highly educated side of my brain and the side of me that has actually felt qi flowing, has had that "religious experience" if you want to call it that, the part that knows that thinking and analyzing is actually the worst way to approach my own faith, and that this core paradox is somehow utterly valid. I constantly think of one of the examples I was given early on when I was learning the Tao: "A deer in the woods doesn't try to be a deer. It just is." The problem with humans is that we're aware enough to know there's something not quite right about us. And so we try really hard to fix it. And in trying really hard, we get further from our natural selves. Or as Vonnegut put it, the trouble with us humans is "those damn big brains."

There was a school of thought in the Celestial Masters branch of Taoism that extolled the virtues of being drunk, because in being drunk we lose our social conditioning and our inhibitions and we come closer to our true natures. That part actually dovetailed nicely with my Lutheran upbringing, because I distinctly remember part of my Confirmation (in my church, it was a 2-year religious education...like Seminary Lite) being about Luther going through the Bible and finding all the verses that indicated drinking was a good thing. I figure he knew he couldn't sell a religion to Germans without that. 

[counting]

Counting, don't double/triple post. If you want to add something after you already made your post then edit the original one.

Sorry about that next time, I'll make a giant text wall containing all the topics in one page. Nah, JK.

I am relying to different people and different replies for different posters should be accepted right? Just because I type fast, I'm not allowing to reply as fast as I can? Or is it affecting others readings? I don't think I am trolling anyone. Am I DO mean every words I said. Nah, most of it, I sometimes love FUN too.

[counting]

This thread just got a lot more interesting to me, as someone who was raised Lutheran (Missouri Synod), broke from the Church, and converted to Taoism 20 years ago. (Initially daojia [Philosophical Taoism], but with time I've added more and more daojiao [Religious Taoism], with all the attendant oddness it brings.)

I actually felt perfectly normal and earnest when I went to a temple in Hangzhou and made a donation and prayed before a statue of the god of Mt. Taishan to ask for a safe passage on a planned pilgrimage to the mountain. I wound up not being able to get a train and headed on to Beijing instead. For all I know, I would have fallen off or been bitten by a poisonous snake, and this was my request being granted. It didn't feel like an empty outcome.

It's been a weird sort of inner dialogue over the years, between the Western, highly rational, highly educated side of my brain and the side of me that has actually felt qi flowing, has had that "religious experience" if you want to call it that, the part that knows that thinking and analyzing is actually the worst way to approach my own faith, and that this core paradox is somehow utterly valid. I constantly think of one of the examples I was given early on when I was learning the Tao: "A deer in the woods doesn't try to be a deer. It just is." The problem with humans is that we're aware enough to know there's something not quite right about us. And so we try really hard to fix it. And in trying really hard, we get further from our natural selves. Or as Vonnegut put it, the trouble with us humans is "those damn big brains."

There was a school of thought in the Celestial Masters branch of Taoism that extolled the virtues of being drunk, because in being drunk we lose our social conditioning and our inhibitions and we come closer to our true natures. That part actually dovetailed nicely with my Lutheran upbringing, because I distinctly remember part of my Confirmation (in my church, it was a 2-year religious education...like Seminary Lite) being about Luther going through the Bible and finding all the verses that indicated drinking was a good thing. I figure he knew he couldn't sell a religion to Germans without that. 

I wonder what's the yuan-fen (the chance , coincident 緣分/缘分) cause you to convert into 道教? I believe you can read Chinese. And 氣 is not just an idea from Taoism. It's one of the foundations in Chinese medicines practices. And Kongfu, not as in the Hollywood movie, is also a practice of martial arts that based on the assumption that qi 氣, is all around us and flowing through our body, so we can live. There is also a common phrase in Chinese as inferring someone dies as 沒氣/斷氣, literally means "out of qi / cut off from qi". I myself practice Taiji, and absolutely understand what you mean when you feel you become one with nature. But I take a more literal sense about practices and believes, rather than taking a philosophy and accept it, I like to question it and examine it. It should be the right questions with no answers. You CAN NOT say it and you CAN NOT name it. It's dao 道. (I wonder why not Doaism but Taoism, the one who translated it years ago can't pronounce it right, I will sound like 逃教.)

[Siquo]

Everywhere the Buddhist go, it's like a magnets, attaching whatever local cultures and believes outside. But with monotheist views, I wouldn't know much about it. But I do know, one of my family member is a Christan while also participate our traditional festival activities, mostly defined by traditional folk religions.

(Catholic) Christianity incorporated a lot of local traditions in order to spread. Jesus wasn't born in December, but it fit nicely with the pagan winter solstice (feast of light, hence the christmas tree), so they changed it. There's numerous other examples as well for that particular sect, although I'm less knowledgeable on how the Greek or Russian orthodox churches did it. Jews never "spread the word" so even though they could merge with local cultures everywhere, their religion didn't, and Islam took a lot of stuff from different locations, as well. It had to adapt, because it spread in cultures older than any.

[CJ1145]

My views on other religions are in my own mind complicated, but I don't know if it translates in communication. I am fine with people practicing whatever religion they wish to, or not practicing one at all. If someone is Buddhist I hope they reach enlightenment. If he follows Islam I would gladly give a donation for his trip to Mecca. Do I believe they are correct paths? Well, that's a bit more complicated. A major tenet of the Christian faith is that our God, or YHWH, or Jehovah, or Christ, or whatever you may call him, is the one true god. So believing any other paths lead to salvation/nirvana/heaven/etc. kind of doesn't fit with my belief. That doesn't mean I'll criticize anyone's beliefs, though, and I'm open to discussion about my faith and theirs whenever.

So let's say hypothetically God resided in the "heaven" (Do you believe in heaven exist? as concurrent to our world?) is true. Since in Taoism, they also believe in heaven, and many deities lived in there, (also in hell). But there is no central almighty GOD running everything, rather like a bureaucratic government, every deities has their jobs and specialty. There is however a highest level deity, like the ranks in a company, there is a CEO. And that deity's job is to manage all the other deities. ('HE' also has a wife too, but lower in rank than him, I'll skip the topic of the marriage problems in heaven). Will you consider that perhaps both views of the heaven are correct, but only difference because of perspective? The highest ranking deity is actually equal to God, and the others are played by angels. Simply because God loves us human all, and what us to feel at ease in the belief with the scenario we see fit and comfortable? Or the images and ways of the God are beyond comprehension, so there is no way to tell at all? Or there is only one true right description is right, but we just don't know?

Well, I do believe in the existence of heaven, but there are a few discrepancies that don't really fit your theory. For one, God has described himself as the one and only god, and a jealous one at that. He would be by his own admission be unwelcoming to other deities. So while the Taoist view of heaven is perfectly viable on its own, if tried to merge with Christianity it doesn't really make sense.

A second issue is that our God is defined as literally Truth incarnate, among other things. Lying, even for our own sake, is simply something he doesn't do. Not to mention the Bible is full of visions of things that simply don't make sense, and if this were true probably would have been edited a bit.

[counting]

Everywhere the Buddhist go, it's like a magnets, attaching whatever local cultures and believes outside. But with monotheist views, I wouldn't know much about it. But I do know, one of my family member is a Christan while also participate our traditional festival activities, mostly defined by traditional folk religions.

(Catholic) Christianity incorporated a lot of local traditions in order to spread. Jesus wasn't born in December, but it fit nicely with the pagan winter solstice (feast of light, hence the christmas tree), so they changed it. There's numerous other examples as well for that particular sect, although I'm less knowledgeable on how the Greek or Russian orthodox churches did it. Jews never "spread the word" so even though they could merge with local cultures everywhere, their religion didn't, and Islam took a lot of stuff from different locations, as well. It had to adapt, because it spread in cultures older than any.

I believe that's one of the main reason Christianity religions, Islamic religions, Buddhism religions are the 3 main group of large religions. (+ Hinduism, they are somewhat closed). Their abilities to adapt themselves and absorb local traditions/culture elements and somehow still keep their basic major common ideologies.