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Author Topic: Forgotten Beasts and locked doors  (Read 3928 times)

imperium3

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Re: Forgotten Beasts and locked doors
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2011, 05:16:05 am »

Wait - they can destroy floor hatches from below? I thought that was impossible!

Time to re-evaluate my defences....
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Hyndis

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Re: Forgotten Beasts and locked doors
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2011, 10:35:30 am »

Wait - they can destroy floor hatches from below? I thought that was impossible!

Time to re-evaluate my defences....

They can, but only if the hatch is unlocked. If the hatch is locked they cannot destroy the hatch from below.
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Oliolli

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Re: Forgotten Beasts and locked doors
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2011, 11:13:11 am »

Wait - they can destroy floor hatches from below? I thought that was impossible!

Time to re-evaluate my defences....

They can, but only if the hatch is unlocked. If the hatch is locked they cannot destroy the hatch from below.

So I should build hatch covers above every cotton candy vein, just in case?
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Hyndis

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Re: Forgotten Beasts and locked doors
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2011, 11:19:27 am »

Wait - they can destroy floor hatches from below? I thought that was impossible!

Time to re-evaluate my defences....

They can, but only if the hatch is unlocked. If the hatch is locked they cannot destroy the hatch from below.

So I should build hatch covers above every cotton candy vein, just in case?

Yes, this is what I did. I had stairs down to the mining area and a hatch built over the stairs. Once the miner went down to mine I locked the hatch behind him.

Eventually the miner was gibbed by the demon hordes, but the hatch held. They could not damage the hatch while it was locked.

I got my military into position and unlocked the hatch. Once the hatch was unlocked the demons vaporized it almost instantly and rushed out to meet my entire military, but while it was locked the hatch was completely invincible. It wasn't even an artifact hatch either. It was just a green glass hatch cover.
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Oliolli

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Re: Forgotten Beasts and locked doors
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2011, 11:36:30 am »

Do you mean an easy way to rid yourself of the demonic hordes is to lock them into the vein and drop a piece of roof on them?
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Quote from: Girlinhat
When all you've got is an adjustable spanner and an entire freight warehouse of terrifying cogs and gears, everything looks like "just a prototype".
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You all turned Swordthunders into a bastion of madness that seems to warp in on itself under its own hatred of sanity.  I'm so happy!
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drowning babies everywhere o-o

Saiko Kila

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Re: Forgotten Beasts and locked doors
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2011, 01:10:08 pm »

I redid the experiment with doors of the same quality but different materials and then with hatches. Doors first.

That was the setup. I used the same trolls as previously, but added one corridor on top, so could check the same doors (steel) with different number of trolls. The new troll, topmost one, is muscular. I also installed two columns of door. I named them 1st column a 2nd column, while rows will be numbered from top. Doors of 1st column are closer to the trolls. Both doors in any chosen row (corridor) are identical. This is to delay trolls but also to check new ideas. Materials are as follows: 1 and 2 row - steel, 3 - iron, 4 - silver, 5 - copper, 6 -rock (gabbro) and 7 - wood. All doors are of superior quality:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Now I started by making sure all doors were unlocked. That was the result:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
All trolls ran to the doors and got stuck there. I waited one week and terminated. Doors were undamaged.

Next I repeated and locked some doors, one in every row.  Upper three rows had 1st column passable and 2nd column forbidden (locked). Bottom four rows had 1st column forbidden and 2nd column passable. Trolls started in a more promising way:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I was observing damage being done to the doors (with "t"). Row 2 doors (steel), with three trolls, were damaged fastest, while row 7 door (wooden) were damaged least.
Finally trolls breached one of doors, row 2:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

At this moment wooden door was xdoorx while all other were XdoorX. Iron door was being damaged fastest of all these remaining. Wooden door was damaged least, with copper following. Iron door was breached next, after some time:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After some time gabbro door was destroyed, then steel door with one troll , then silver, then copper:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Note that trolls in upper three rows were unstuck and actively destroying doors, while trolls in four bottom rows were stuck and not destroying. Upper three rows had these doors forbidden.

Then I decided to unlock one of doors in 2nd column, iron one. That smart troll has immediately moved next to them and got stuck. And final results:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I left it for one week and then terminated. Silver Iron door was lightly mangled before I unlocked them. But it remained that way during the next 6 way, when the troll assigned to it was stuck.

After seeing this I decided to repeat it with different combinations of unlock and lock. I won't give screenshots for that, would be too boring.

What was revealed? It is enough to lock one door in a row to make sure trolls won't get stuck on the first door. It's not important which one would be unlocked. However, trolls are stuck on a second door if that one was unlocked. Now, it is not enough to unlock all doors in a row to have troll stuck. If troll of row above is not stuckable, then troll from row below sometimes (more often than not) don't stuck. Probably he can path to the door above him, and is not as resigned as trolls who cannot path. Which means that a specific surroundings and pathing decides whether the troll will get stuck or not. So all of the above is true for this particular setup. It may work not reliably in different setup. We all know the game is performing certain calculations starting from top-left corner, so there may be differences when trolls go from right to left for instance. Actually what was working reliably is allowing to pass for these trolls, getting them stuck is harder.

Door material seem to be not important. Particular troll may be important, because again the last one was the average joe on bottom row. Even skinny troll was better. Number of trolls seem to be important, because the time difference between breach of first door and second door was much more pronounced that time differences between each of following successive breaches.

About hatches. I must recant my statement about locked hatch destroying. I made experiments with locked hatches, unlocked hatches and mechanised hatches. Trolls under unlocked hatches were destroying them, though it was taking more time than destroying a door (up to three-five days). Trolls under locked or mechanised hatches were not even stuck, they were not interested in them. They were hanging around, moving and stopping randomly. Unlocking a hatch was causing trolls to congregate under it, locking again was causing them to scatter around. I also made an experiment with an artifact hatch. That hatch was not destroyed in 14 days (unlocked of course). Troll was trying, but couldn't. After that time I had to terminate the experiment, but the hatch was unscathed.  Normal hatches may be destroyed after 3 days, but the damage to them is visible usually on day 0, and always on day 1. So artifact hatches are much better. Trolls are kind of stuck below, because they truly believe they will destroy them.

Note about tileset: yes, it's Ironhand's. I have changed color scheme of the game (taking one from wiki) so it may look different. Colors may be off. I did it because red and highlighted red look too similar to each other on my monitor.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 01:15:56 pm by Saiko Kila »
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Hyndis

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Re: Forgotten Beasts and locked doors
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2011, 04:28:53 pm »

Artifacts cannot be destroyed. Building destroyers will attack them but fail to destroy them. This can go on for years if you let them.
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Sarda

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Re: Forgotten Beasts and locked doors
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2011, 05:43:11 pm »

They can however be deconstructed- such as, say, a demon tearing an artifact door off its non-artifact hinges. So, make sure of that.
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