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[ChairmanPoo]

Why do you feel the troll? he's clearly aiming for a Steinesque troll on how the evils of science allowed the Holocaust

Silly me, I'd swore there was a link between biology and medicine. Oh well...

To be fair, it's not like paleontology has a lot of bearing in medical practice or R&D, at least insofar as I know.

[Lethal Dosage]

The race to the space cost billions of dollars. Yet every one of them has been worth it, both in the scientific and economic field.
And the NASA won't launch unreasonable project.

Worth what? Billions of our dollars to take pictures? While I certainly appreciate the scenery it hasn't quite benefited us down here on Earth

What you don't realize is that A LOT of our current technology is in some way, connected to these space "pioneering" programs. Although yes, I do think it's fucked up we're prioritizing space explorations rather then feeding the thousands of dying children.

[ChairmanPoo]

NASA  even has a webpage listing some of them.
http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/Spinoff2008/tech_benefits.html

of course, it's arguable that, strictly speaking, many of those technologies did not, in fact, require sending people to the moon to develop them. Still, it's clear that NASA is using at least part of it's budget to develop undeniably useful stuff.

[Lethal Dosage]

That's good evidence of why the government needs to keep on funding projects like this. However, the question is, how much funding should they receive for it to be "appropriate"?

[mainiac]

Because it's really easy to do a cost benefit analysis on speculative technologies...

NASA costs the US one tenth of one percent of our national economy.  It's one half of one percent of our government budget.  And that money isn't even all spent on space exploration because those technologies for aircraft and weather reports have to come from somewhere.

Government spending in the long range R+D that NASA, the NSF, the NHO, etc. do is the lifeblood of our economy.  It's investing in the future and there is no body but the government with the ability and inclination to do it.

[ChairmanPoo]

I think goverment spending is very important. I am disappointed in my own goverment for their lack of investment in R&D, particularily in areas in which we have a strong base and are very promising.

Thus, I think it's important to funnel funds from the private sector (venture capitalists and otherwise) into R&D (if goverment funding is plentiful, it makes it even better. If it is not, then it's crucial). In that regard, at my  (private) university they funded a fairly important biomedical I+D center using capital from a temporary corporation union. It was quite successful, and the guy who thought about it was praised for the idea by business circles.

Then, more recently, a world-renowned oncologist who had come back from the US to lead a (public) oncology research center, thought to use a variant on the above to fund his own institution. He's to be deposed and will likely leave abroad once again.

(TL, DR: very annoyed with the goverment's treatment of that man. And since public funds are not much safer than private ones -look at this man. Look at the R&D cuts being done around the world. Look at the mess that Judge Lambert asshole started in the US-, it's important to secure as many funding sources as possible.)

[thobal]

To play the devil's advocate:

What is the tangible benefit of feeding starving people?

They are poor and overseas: they cannot possibly hope to threaten us militarily.
They are unskilled and speak a different language: it would not be easy to put them to work.
They are often violent to one another, due to their starvation: they make it difficult for us to extract the resources upon which they sit.
Their consumption of resources grows all the time: they are depleting the very resources we need for ourselves.


Why not wipe them out?


See how easy it is to get from why feed them to why not kill them? The reason I like socialism is because the underlying tenant is that if it saves you one penny to use orphan tears in some manufacturing process, the invisible hand demands that you do.

Let me repeat that for you:

The main tenant of capitalism is that atrocities are okay if they make you money. Don't pretend evolution got us Hitler, capitalism did.

[Starver]

This is a tangential and diversionary post.  Calm down, everyone.

We can't bring multiple tons of mining equipment to the moon, for example, because we don't have the necessary power supplies to bring tha much equipment to the moon for less than billions and billions of dollars.

How much would a really long extension cable cost?

Do you live in a cave? No gps, no internet, no Gsm, no satellite tv?

(^^Noting that I only use two of these, and that at a push...)
Is it a sign of an old fogey that I remember when there'd be frequent internet outages meaning one could access UK places (mostly academic with big-endian equivalent to .ac.uk) but not US ones (likewise, with .edu) and we used to blame it on the cable across the Atlantic snapping.  (Probably more to do with JANET (or whatever it was styled as, back then... 2Mb/s backbones FTW!) falling off the net itself...  This was way before you could "ping Google", in either .com or .co.uk formats, and a bit before IP traffic anyway.)  It was a common meme that it was the cable, though, and not a satellite.

(What else was I going to reply to in a similar vein?  Darn, forgotten.)

However and can I remind people that "possessive its" has no apostrophe.  *Mutter mutter* standards are slipping *mutter mutter* youth of today *grouch grouch* the Pedant's Curse may apply *grizzle*.

[ChairmanPoo]

The only real question is: would you give your job to robots so fearless leader can pee in solid gold urinal?

[Criptfeind]

The main tenant of capitalism is that atrocities are okay if they make you money. Don't pretend evolution got us Hitler, capitalism did.

Great argument versus unregulated capitalism aka anarchy. Now you only need everything else.

Edit: Also, I am unsure if you know what 'devil's advocate' means. That was a lot closer to sarcasm.

[thobal]

Edit: Also, I am unsure if you know what 'devil's advocate' means. That was a lot closer to sarcasm.

Okay, you make an argument for feeding the poor.


Edit: Where did you get sarcasm from? You do read the paper, right?

[Criptfeind]

Okay. Since you insisted.


If you feed the poor, then you will not go to hell to burn for all eternity.

[thobal]

You know I meant a tangible benefit.

Edit: Besides, as the devil's advocate, he'd be a fool to send me to hell before judgement day.

[Criptfeind]

Edit: Where did you get sarcasm from? You do read the paper, right?

No. But I have read Ishmael.

You know I meant a tangible benefit.

I did not know that. And quite frankly I will not spend the effort on this without knowing why you want me to.

[thobal]

Because the thread is about socialism.


I'm having some difficultly determining your opinion on the issue.

I am in favor of socialism.

I went to a public high school, paid for through the common tax. I drive on public roads paid for by taxes levied via referendum. My food, and the food of those around me is inspected by a collective effort. I was educated in a public university, paid for by the common wealth. I enjoy a life free from immediate fears because of police, fire, and military services provided for via the social efforts of myself and my neighbors.

Socialism provided all of these things. Try and twist the definition if you must. But socialism will always be services provided for all via the common efforts of some.

Why? Because we don't want to live in a world filled with desperate people. They aren't very fun to talk to and tend to steal stuff. And if they have jobs, educations, happy lives; and so can also contribute to our collective efforts to improve the lives inside our society, then life gets better and easier for all of us.

EDIT: Just noticed this, think you should stop having an opinion on current events. Unless you don't know that "the paper" means journalism.

You do read the paper, right?

No.