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[Lethal Dosage]

Here's an interesting quote I found recently:

"This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by a municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

I watched this while eating my breakfast of U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time, as regulated by the U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the U.S. Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank.

On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the U.S. Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

And then I log on to the internet -- which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration -- and post on Freerepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right."

[Muz]

Heh, I don't think I've ever seen General Discussion without someone discussing socialism. We need a politics/economics subforum

[Levi]

Its not that bad when the people managing it aren't lazy. 

Myself I'd rather a ineffective public institution than a corrupt corporate one.  At least the first one doesn't feel malicious. 

[Lagslayer]

Government control is not inherently a bad thing, but if the government handles the matter in a corrupt or inefficient manner, it is.

The postal service used to be very important, but now'a'days it is constantly losing money. It's time has just about passed.
The government can't even get medicare and medicaid working smoothly, let alone the entire healthcare system.
Various utilities seem to be functioning well.
Keeping food companies from poisoning us is generally a good thing, as are most of the safety standards.
The space program is invaluable. It's a shame we are stripping it down.
FCC regulation restricts free speech, for better or worse.

That being said, I find the government to be corrupt and/or inefficient more often than not. Not that privately owned businesses can't be corrupt as well, but they at least strive for maximum efficiency.

[Taricus]

That being said, I find the government to be corrupt and/or inefficient more often than not. Not that privately owned businesses can't be corrupt as well, but they at least strive for maximum efficiency.

Maximum efficiency of profit generation sure, but quality-wise I highly doubt when in this case there are many corners they could cut to save money that don't affect the main object they're working on but have a lot of side effects.

[_DivideByZero_]

The space program is invaluable. It's a shame we are stripping it down.

Just asking, why is it invaluable? Don't we have enough problems here on Earth?

[Realmfighter]

The space program is invaluable. It's a shame we are stripping it down.

Just asking, why is it invaluable? Don't we have enough problems here on Earth?

Because the Alt Text

[Criptfeind]

Yes it is valuble. Yes we do have issues on earth, which is why it is no longer going.

[_DivideByZero_]

Why is it valuable though? Do tell.

[Criptfeind]

Because we need to leave earth. Even if it is just to grab some of the rocks that are floating around.

[Lagslayer]

That being said, I find the government to be corrupt and/or inefficient more often than not. Not that privately owned businesses can't be corrupt as well, but they at least strive for maximum efficiency.

Maximum efficiency of profit generation sure, but quality-wise I highly doubt when in this case there are many corners they could cut to save money that don't affect the main object they're working on but have a lot of side effects.

Businesses have to have at least some redeeming quality to get our money, even if it's just being less sucky than the alternative. The government can just force us to pay more taxes regardless of how badly it if performing. All bets are off if the government has any hand in how the "private" businesses are run.

[_DivideByZero_]

Why do we need to leave earth? And where to? Mars is nowhere close to habitable at the moment, and at the fastest possible acceleration (any more would kill us) for humans, it would still take over a year to reach mars. To leave the solar system would take decades if not centuries. I'm sure that delaying the program a few years will mean absolutely nothing since we'd need to achieve FTL travel if leaving Earth would ever be feasible.

Also, consider that for the extremely generous price of 4000$/kg to reach orbit, and that the average human weighs ~80 kg in the US, it would cost 32$ million dollars to send one hundred people into orbit. And that accounts for nothing but weight based on fuel costs. The amount of money and time it would take to get the supplies and fuel necessary for a multiple-century simply into orbit would easily skyrocket into the trillions.

And it doesn't look like we'll get a space elevator up soon. Maybe, but even then it would take a ridiculous amount of power to run the thing. We'd need advancements in every field to get everything to work.

From a pragmatic point of view, this idea would be utterly ludicrous, considering the amount of debt we are in at the moment.

[Lagslayer]

Why do we need to leave earth? And where to? Mars is nowhere close to habitable at the moment, and at the fastest possible acceleration (any more would kill us) for humans, it would still take over a year to reach mars. To leave the solar system would take decades if not centuries. I'm sure that delaying the program a few years will mean absolutely nothing since we'd need to achieve FTL travel if leaving Earth would ever be feasible.

Also, consider that for the extremely generous price of 4000$/kg to reach orbit, and that the average human weighs ~80 kg in the US, it would cost 32$ million dollars to send one hundred people into orbit. And that accounts for nothing but weight based on fuel costs. The amount of money and time it would take to get the supplies and fuel necessary for a multiple-century simply into orbit would easily skyrocket into the trillions.

And it doesn't look like we'll get a space elevator up soon. Maybe, but even then it would take a ridiculous amount of power to run the thing. We'd need advancements in every field to get everything to work.

From a pragmatic point of view, this idea would be utterly ludicrous, considering the amount of debt we are in at the moment.

The moon has absorbed a great deal of nuclear material from the sun's rays. It can be used for fission reactors, and that's just for starters. We may not need space travel immediately, but we will need it in the future. Even if we somehow devise 100% efficiency recycling, we will still need more resources to expand. I also feel that exploring the cosmos would be a great boon to the morale of the people (we are explorers by nature). People will not tolerate developmental stasis. Also, NASA doesn't get all that much money. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Budget

I don't think the space elevator thing will ever happen. I don't ever see that becoming practical until we have something much better.

[_DivideByZero_]

How do we use that for fission? Are you saying there is uranium on the moon?
Furthermore, in our situation, it is undeniably smart to cut the space program. The cost of getting industrial equipment up there is simply too great. We have our economy to worry about atm, and putting the program off a few years wont affect us in the future in a considerable cashion You talk about nuclear power on the moon while our scientists on Earth are unable to figure out fusion because of lack of funding. Funds need to go where it matters, and we can get back to the space program when our economy isn't in shambles.

About the elevator, that is my point. NASA wants to study microbes on Mars. The thought idea of sending industrial equipment to the moon is far too costly to consider. It would cost trillions of dollars and take decades to set up.

[Criptfeind]

Yes. Cuts to the space program are needed, as I said, but the worry is that we will never get back to it.