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[Criptfeind]

Eh... Fuck it.

Dude calm down. And religion has done FAR more then anti-religious people have done to screw up the world, if you don't think that you are delusional.

So Islam is a horrid thing because it promotes terrorists?

Nope, the people who do it in the name of Islam are.

Shut up. Question not for you.

[Nadaka]

I'm not killing off anyone who doesn't go my way. I am not beating or threatening people into submission to my will. I am not brainwashing anyone. I am not the one being a hypocrite here. I am not the one flying off the handle because I can't handle the existence of opinions counter to my own. I don't hate religious people at all, I love all people. The religious people are the principal victims of religion, both their own and targeted by others. People need to be saved from religion, that is what I was talking about.

The only thing I can morally do is use reason and knowledge to counter the BS that has drilled into their heads, your head, from infancy. Doing that for Christians means that I need to call you on all the evil crap glorified by the bible and all the atrocities performed on behalf of faith, the church and religion in general on both a grand and personal scale. If I can free one mind, open one heart, it will be worth it.

[Leafsnail]

"To save people from evil"
As is any number of things, from fast food to the internet where you're reading this. Moreover, "saving" people from evil in this manner is just about the most evil thing imaginable. You're dictating belief? Fuck you.

I agree it's a condescending and possibly unhelpful attitude, but I don't think he said anything about "dictating".  A lot of viewpoints become ridiculous if you add "And I'd be willing to force this viewpoint upon anyone" to it.

[Criptfeind]

I'm not killing off anyone who doesn't go my way. I am not beating or threatening people into submission to my will. I am not brainwashing anyone. I am not the one being a hypocrite here. I am not the one flying off the handle because I can't handle the existence of opinions counter to my own. I don't hate religious people at all, I love all people. The religious people are the principal victims of religion, both their own and targeted by others. People need to be saved from religion, that is what I was talking about.

The only thing I can morally do is use reason and knowledge to counter the BS that has drilled into their heads, your head, from infancy. Doing that for Christians means that I need to call you on all the evil crap glorified by the bible and all the atrocities performed on behalf of faith, the church and religion in general on both a grand and personal scale. If I can free one mind, open one heart, it will be worth it.

Yes. Because all religious people are fundamentalists and all fundamentalists are a issue.

Indeed teaching children in a specific way is quite evil. I move that all elementary schools are abolished and all babies are taken away from their family at birth and put into isolation until they have a firmed mindset. Of course there may be the small issue that that will never happen in isolation. But who well.

Furthermore I put forward that all religions are abolished and people are no longer forced to think in a certain way via not allowing them to think in other ways.

[lemon10]

Eh... Fuck it.

Dude calm down. And religion has done FAR more then anti-religious people have done to screw up the world, if you don't think that you are delusional.

So Islam is a horrid thing because it promotes terrorists?

Nope, the people who do it in the name of Islam are.

Shut up. Question not for you.

I presume its for me then?
That has nothing to do with what i said. At all, in any way shape or form, and am rather confused why you addressed it to me.
Islam promoting terrorism would be a terrible thing (I don't know enough about Islam to actually know how fair the terrorists interpretation of the Koran actually is).
Honestly though, i'm not too big a fan of Islam/Christianity/Any other religion, and organized religion as a whole is pretty nasty and has caused/supported a large amount of terrible things.

Dude calm down. And religion has done FAR more then anti-religious people have done to screw up the world, if you don't think that you are delusional.

To be fair, religion's also done a lot more to help the world. There's a pretty overwhelming bias in the sample here.

Yeah, thats fair, although I still think religion has done more harm then good.

Indeed teaching children in a specific way is quite evil. I move that all elementary schools are abolished and all babies are taken away from their family at birth and put into isolation until they have a firmed mindset. Of course there may be the small issue that that will never happen in isolation. But who well.

Furthermore I put forward that all religions are abolished and people are no longer forced to think in a certain way via not allowing them to think in other ways

Teaching children something that has no noticeable basis in reality is pretty horrible, especially since they don't question it as they are children.

[Criptfeind]

Whatever. I was drawing a line about thinking it is the religion and not the people using the religion. Obviously it is not going to work.

[Nadaka]

Cryptfiend: you really, really need to work on your satire. For starters it should at least have something at least partially tangentially related to what you are attempting to ridicule. As it is, you are not only off target, you fell off the map with that last one.

[Criptfeind]

You people are so crazy. Can not see the intangibles. Religion is clearly a good thing to anyone who would look.

You guys are using arguments that could be applied to say politics. Or economics. Seriously. These are things we need (not all of us need religion, but many people find much benefit from it) It staggers me how ignorant you are.

[Nadaka]

And it really staggers me how ignorant you are being. Religion is clearly not a good thing to anyone who would look.

1: it has no basis in reality.
2: it relies on brain washing, fear and actual physical harm to spread itself and eliminate competitors.
3: the most popular religions glorify deities that are amoral at best and absolute evil at worst.
4: it hinders peoples ability to think rationally and make independent decisions.
5: it is used to disenfranchise billions of people for the profit of a few.

[Taco Dan]

I've never believed in God, as my parents told me I could believe whatever I want to believe. They don't believe in "God", at least not in the Christian sense. They believe there is some sort of higher power in the universe that guides us along. I really don't believe there's anyone watching over us; We do what we do, and we don't need to rely on some invisible presence to see us through it.

That said, however, if I die, and there is a hell, and God is looking down at me shaking his head, I will fully admit that I was wrong. (Not that it would help, if I were a Christian I'd still be going to Hell.)

I really don't care what your beliefs are, just as long as you're not pushing it onto other people. This is why I have a problem with Catholics. I also don't like it if you use it as the basis of all your decisions (I'm going to walk across this busy street, but I'll be OK because God will prote-*WHAM*).

In short, Christianity needs to tone it down a bit.

[Strife26]

Religion is not an innately evil thing.

One: anything (good, evil or moral) can be used as a scapegoat
Example: democratic government -> French Revolutionary Terror period
Example: Betterment of the human race -> Social Darwinism
General: "<positive effect> justifies the means"
     Saving souls justifies being a dick
Negative truth: Religion may be used for evil purposes

Two: Religion provides people with a certainty to life
That morality has an actual reason rather than being the result of random chance (or random chance applied to competition)
That there is something more to existence after death
That there is a purpose for humanity and for specific humans
That the final victory of good over evil is ensured.

Three Religion furthers the efforts and effects of individual good
Religious communities are a natural focal point and organizational basis for undeniably good activities (serving the poor and needy, ect.)
Religion is often a starting point for people to fix their lives
Helping others is a common point expressed in religious services, providing a constant reminder for people to do good things

Four: Religion is an amorphous term
Taking Bible passages literally as examples of GOD IS EVUL isn't relevant, considering that the majority of Christians don't literally take the Bible and/or do not follow said passages.



Some SMBC comics that seemed somewhat related that I found when typing this.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

In a religious setting, I'm the least religious person there. On Bay 12, I'm the most. What's up with that?




Specifc Rebutal

1: Says you, arguing with belief is a pointless endeavor. See also "mystery of faith"
2: Says you. Closest thing I've ever had to be physically forced into a church service is the last time that I guy driving by me on the street asked me if I'd like to join him for a service. See also non-rebuttal points one through three. Religion provides comfort and certainty for people.
3: Ascribing terms like amoral or evil to omniscient beings is difficult at best and pointless at worst. Whole 'nother discussion, really.
4: Not specific to Religion. Any type of opinion does this.
5: Really? See non-rebuttal point one as well as "conspiracy theory." Unless it's supposed to be about authoritarian theocracies, in which case just see non-rebuttal point one.

[Glowcat]

So Islam is a horrid thing because it promotes terrorists?

Islam is a horrid thing because it is a collection of traditions that places great importance in literalism of its Holy Text, the product of an ancient warlike Patriarchal society, and those of its practitioners who find dissatisfaction with secular aspects of society will often turn deeper into literalism out of the mistaken notion (guided by religion's undeserved privilege in most societies) that it will lead to some form of satisfaction or enlightenment. As the source of their "enlightenment" is in fact the codified traditions of a backwards self-serving society, and a part of their beliefs is that such traditions are the source of all that is good in the world, the serious ones will begin rationalizing that people need to become more conservative, like them, and attempt to enforce their religion onto others whenever possible. This in itself tends to be a bad thing -- against the well-being of society. Any who might argue against the person's ideas are rebuked on Faith as well as the practitioner's aversion to what they clearly think of as a lesser, filthier, society. The word 'materialistic' is thrown around a lot.

Outside of the Middle-East such people have little power alone, instead allying with similarly-motivated groups to achieve shared ends, but in places where Islamic traditions have control over government people are stripped of rights and punished on the basis of Faith alone. They can not consider what they do is wrong, since it is God himself who has led them down their path, and will not change their view until a credible theological counter-argument to their stance can be found. They can't do so for other reasons, such as happiness of their people, because Religion is of primary importance in their minds and supersedes all other arguments. If a religious population rises up against such leadership it is more likely to be for accusations of greed and decadence than the tyranny of scripture. The most likely way such tradition-mired societies will vanish is by improving the lot of the people and have them get lost in life itself until they forget entirely about what they used to consider of ultimate importance. Some of this group may revert due to disillusionment caused by existential crisis, but with continued stability comes a sense of trust in humanity that overcomes a need for supernatural masters.

As for terrorism: it is only one consequence of those who seek meaning in the traditions while they simultaneously burn with a moral rage against perceived injustice. Whether that injustice stems from religious ideals or more secular ones, the only difference between an Islamic terrorist and a non-religious terrorist is a sense of conviction that easily comes from the hubris of Faith. The non-religious terrorist must rationalize their action based on the real world alone.

-

Anyway. I find it annoying that some people are dishonest enough to try shaming criticism of religion into silence by acting as though ANY criticism means the critic wants to throw everybody in mind-control gulags or that anti-theists are somehow a physical threat comparable to religious fanatics. Indignation at challenged privilege is a piss-poor excuse to not allow people a place in speaking their mind. Criticizing religion everywhere one goes may be undiplomatic -- and I would strongly urge against it unless all present parties are interested in the conversation -- but if you consider it rude that people create their own websites to show their own viewpoint then maybe you need to consider why you feel threatened by their existence. When I take issue with something outrageously stupid my first thought isn't to complain about them having a voice about something, it's annoyance at something so outrageously stupid.

Also, Religion being a cause for good as well as bad is irrelevant to whether it was necessary for the good provided. If the same benefit can be achieved through other means, without the negatives, then the obvious choice to is abandon the version with the negatives.

[PsyberianHusky]

Voltaire said if god did not exist it would be necessary to invent him.
   I always thought that he was talking about like an anime or something, cause that is what intellectual do, but maybe religion is kinda being mentioned about people needing things like certainty in life.

   It support the right to belief up until it removes social power from another, I support the right for this guy to have his website disclaiming religious beliefs, and I support anyone who things the owner of this website is a cruel charter for trying to force others what to believe.

[Bauglir]

And it really staggers me how ignorant you are being. Religion is clearly not a good thing to anyone who would look.

1: it has no basis in reality.
2: it relies on brain washing, fear and actual physical harm to spread itself and eliminate competitors.
3: the most popular religions glorify deities that are amoral at best and absolute evil at worst.
4: it hinders peoples ability to think rationally and make independent decisions.
5: it is used to disenfranchise billions of people for the profit of a few.

1: Define reality. No, really. Once you've done that (and presumably at this point we're talking about observable reality, which is the only thing that it's at all productive to talk about), explain why anything without a basis in it is bad. Remember, there's a difference between lacking a basis in reality and having a basis contrary to reality.

For the rest: so a religion that didn't do that would be alright? Welcome to Deism, my friend!

[Taco Dan]

Dude calm down. And religion has done FAR more then anti-religious people have done to screw up the world, if you don't think that you are delusional.

So Islam is a horrid thing because it promotes terrorists?

Where in his post does it say this? Just because some crazy people decided to start killing in the name of a religion, doesn't mean the entire religion is bad. That's like saying that there's a fly in your soup so all soup is disgusting now.

You people are so crazy. Can not see the intangibles. Religion is clearly a good thing to anyone who would look.

You know why we can't see the intangibles? Because they're intangible.
People seem to like arguing in the black and white. "Either you like religion or you hate it and you want all of them gone!" This is not the case. I don't mind religion in general; people can believe what they want to believe. It's the nut-jobs who threaten people and force their religion down people's throats that I hate.


Oh, and one more thing: Don't bring up Scientology; It's not a religion, it's a business.