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Author Topic: The Witcher 2: total rubbish?  (Read 35046 times)

Soulwynd

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Re: The Witcher 2: total rubbish?
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2011, 03:51:13 pm »

As for the collectable women card game, it is misogynistic. But it's just a pc game, so I don't really care either way. :P
So having a picture of your lover is equivalent to "collecting" them somehow? I'll have to keep that in mind.
Don't take this offensively even if it may sound so. Do you just reply to antagonize people or do you do you really think having a picture of your lover is similar to collecting pictures of one night stands?

Having a picture of your lover is obviously different from collecting cards with pictures of girls you banged and having them as achievements, which was what they were in the first game. One is appreciating, the other is objectifying women. Strawman is always a bad fallacy, my good antagonist.

And you don't think that's totally inacceptable in a roleplaying game?
Honestly? I don't give a fuck. If I wanted a story, I would read a book. I play games to play games. What matters to me is gameplay. Story is a sub-product and in all honesty, I never waste time reading text dialogs in your classical crpg or go read up the lore. If the gameplay isn't good, I don't care how good the story may be, it's not a good game.

Main reason why I don't like Dragon Age or Mass Effect. You have 10% of crappy gameplay along with 90% of crappy cliche story. If I wanted an interactive story book, which I never want as I would rather have a real book, I would have gone for an interactive story book. Story should be a result of your gameplaying, not a focus, as in; It can drive the game and/or be driven by the game, but never overstep it.

What I find unacceptable about witcher 2 is the fact you have Geralt, a total army-slaying badass, who due to story gets subdued in the most ridiculous fashions without any input from you. A fact which falls in the clause above and I could live without that sort of ridiculous disparity between gameplay and story.

An example of where that doesn't happen, as far as I know, is Prototype. You're a badass monster, even when people fuck you up. Even if it has fewer cutscenes and less story, it's much more convincing, since it doesn't contradict what you play.

The silly options resulting in weird things are more funny and unexpected than anything else. Once you realize they're course of actions and you don't really input every single bit of the dialog, you can easily distinguish which one means you will be nice or mean to a given person.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 03:53:01 pm by Soulwynd »
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debvon

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Re: The Witcher 2: total rubbish?
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2011, 06:17:34 pm »

I don't understand the rage directed at this game. It's really not as bad as portrayed in the OP. In fact I'm sure if one would play past chapter 1, one would perhaps realize that the game isn't as bad as one originally thought it was  ;)
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Soulwynd

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Re: The Witcher 2: total rubbish?
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2011, 07:41:37 pm »

I don't think it's bad. It has been fun so far. It has some issues, of course, but overall it's fun.
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Toady Two

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Re: The Witcher 2: total rubbish?
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2011, 04:31:25 am »

I'm assuming Geralt surrendered  to the two Temerian soldiers in the prologue because he wanted to prove his innocence. If he went on a killing spree and escaped after what happened in that room then even people who he could trust to believe his version of the story like Triss and Vernon Roche would not buy it.
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Mindmaker

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Re: The Witcher 2: total rubbish?
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2011, 05:19:57 am »

Uhm 'collecting women'?
As far as I remember you only viewed them once as a erotic visualization of said person, during the implied sex scene.
You weren't able to go trough them again afterwards, or were you?

@Soulwynd:
Sounds like you would hate Planescape Torment, then.
A lot of people say it was the best RPG ever made.
So don't generalize how games 'should' be. It's a matter of taste after all.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 05:27:47 am by Mindmaker »
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Rooster

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Re: The Witcher 2: total rubbish?
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2011, 05:58:02 am »

I once heard, that:
"Those big-shot writers could never dig the fact that there are more salted peanuts consumed than caviar... If the public likes you, you're good."

I always fancied bay12 games community as people with (mostly) above average IQ individuals, that for some reason liked the sandbox-open gameplay that DF provides.

Here, you only discuss the bad things in the game, however I've seen that the game is still fun?
The game is already a huge sucess worldwide. CD projekt pumped millions to make the most polished game possible. In my personal experience there is no "right or wrong system" in the Witcher. Have you seen any karma bars recently?
The game was made to give as much choice possible, and if the producer felt that constraining had to be put into the game, it's because it would add to the experience. I could add some arguments, why general thrashing the game, rather than saying "I did not like the game" doesn't do the game justice, but they escape my grasp at the moment.
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Soulwynd

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Re: The Witcher 2: total rubbish?
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2011, 12:12:19 pm »

Uhm 'collecting women'?
As far as I remember you only viewed them once as a erotic visualization of said person, during the implied sex scene.
You weren't able to go trough them again afterwards, or were you?
Of course you were able to. They were in the journal profiles along with a lil heart achievement sort of icon.

You see, in the end, Geralt could either go with Toruviel, Rayla, oooor
while pursuing his actual 'love' affair, which could be either Triss or Shani. Notice that Triss is banged by Geralt in both game's prologues. So far in the second game, Geralt can only go with hookers (while enamored with Triss; well more like she is enamored with him).

@Soulwynd:
Sounds like you would hate Planescape Torment, then.
A lot of people say it was the best RPG ever made.
So don't generalize how games 'should' be. It's a matter of taste after all.
Uh... Since when a lot of people saying something makes it right? I'm sorry but a lot of people are plain wrong.

Just like a lot of fuckwads thought the world was going to end yesterday because of the rapture. And I know that last phrase is a strawman, just letting you know it's a strawman and not an actual argument.

Ps. No opinion on Planescape Torment. I stopped playing those old D&D games on the one where you became a demi-god and then skipped to NWN. But I do want to give it a go someday.

I'm assuming Geralt surrendered  to the two Temerian soldiers in the prologue because he wanted to prove his innocence. If he went on a killing spree and escaped after what happened in that room then even people who he could trust to believe his version of the story like Triss and Vernon Roche would not buy it.
That was my assumption. But he could have jumped out of the window, you know, after the bad guy, who was down there in the river with 3 puny little elves whom Geralt could have killed in a second? Or maybe use that fucking medallion that arbitrarily detects treats that apparently don't affect the story at all and only seems like a writer's lever? Or if you want to go really mean, don't give a shit about it and escape, killing the two witnesses. He already wanted to disappear anyway and he certainly doesn't give a fuck about Triss besides fucking her. Then again we wouldn't have the same story and can you imagine AAA games having story freedom besides absolute good/evil on rails nowadays? Not really, even tho the witcher does have a lot more leeway than your average kiddie AAA game.

The game is already a huge sucess worldwide. CD projekt pumped millions to make the most polished game possible. In my personal experience there is no "right or wrong system" in the Witcher. Have you seen any karma bars recently?
Yes, I have. Every time I play it... PRESS M... There's a huge morality compass on the top right side of the map.

The game was made to give as much choice possible, and if the producer felt that constraining had to be put into the game, it's because it would add to the experience. I could add some arguments, why general thrashing the game, rather than saying "I did not like the game" doesn't do the game justice, but they escape my grasp at the moment.
Not sure if you're talking to me or the OP, but I'm liking the game, I was just pointing out the down-sides along with some up-sides. The downside is obviously the faulty story and bad controls. The upside, Geralt is badass and the dialogs usually show it, also the combat is challenging and would be so even if the controls were a bit better. You have a lot of choice on how to tackle your problems and fights, which is a highlight for the game.

You know, you can be critic of something and still like it. Striving for better things instead of settling, I suppose.

Also, constraints adding to the experience? I'm sorry but this isn't the bondage board. May be good for the witcher (and pretty much everyone else) in bed, but it's not good for a free thinking mind.
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Mindmaker

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Re: The Witcher 2: total rubbish?
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2011, 11:48:43 pm »

@Soulwynd:
It does not.
But I said it that way, because you speak like you are representing the whole gaming community.

Planescape: Torment had a crappy combat system.
Making your main character into a mage was a pain, since it made combat even more annoying, but rewarded me with some additional background information.
The Walls of Text were what made the game actually worthwile. You won't find a more indepth story anywhere.
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Soulwynd

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Re: The Witcher 2: total rubbish?
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2011, 03:06:32 am »

I only represent myself, as far as I know. Sorry I gave the wrong impression.

Again, I can't speak for Planescape or its story. I get very vocal about cRPGs these days. I hate the direction they took.

Anyway, seems like you can go for other love affairs in Witcher 2, but the gameplay with all its bugs is starting to get really annoying. Bad targeting and the fact that your controls simply lock up now and then really fucks it up. It tries to be all god of war hack&lash with the combat but fails terribly at it. The main story is also kind of bleh, but the side quests and non-important dialogs make up for it. Like this sex crazed dorf I just met, he apparently did a dwarf fortress reference. They also mock lord of the rings quite a bit.
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Mindmaker

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Re: The Witcher 2: total rubbish?
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2011, 03:42:07 am »

Yes, I assumed this much.
It's by using words like "should" in a gerneralized context, that you give away the wrong impression.

Lucky for me I can enjoy most of the RPGs being made.
Sometimes I'm even satisfied if one aspect of the game has been well done even when the other ones are lacking. For example exploration in Fallout 3.
However I've missed a lot of the more recent ones...

Wish I could play The Witcher 2 so I could give my opinion.
But seeing how my brother got most of my stuff hacked, including my Steam account, this might take a while.
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Salabasama

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Re: The Witcher 2: total rubbish?
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2011, 04:27:26 am »

Heard a few mentions through the thread, makes it sound like some people aren't aware CDProject sells the game in DRM-free digital form online.  http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/the_witcher_2

The purchase also includes site credit enough to buy two or three old games for Australian and EU customers to make up for increased prices in those locations.  http://www.gog.com/en/support/the_witcher_2/_b_product_faq_b_

They were really weirdly generous with this offer.
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I keep thinking glacier fortress would be fun, but it always ends up as cave layer fortress.

Virtz

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Re: The Witcher 2: total rubbish?
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2011, 06:09:58 am »

@Soulwynd:
Sounds like you would hate Planescape Torment, then.
A lot of people say it was the best RPG ever made.
So don't generalize how games 'should' be. It's a matter of taste after all.
Uh... Since when a lot of people saying something makes it right? I'm sorry but a lot of people are plain wrong.

Just like a lot of fuckwads thought the world was going to end yesterday because of the rapture. And I know that last phrase is a strawman, just letting you know it's a strawman and not an actual argument.

Ps. No opinion on Planescape Torment. I stopped playing those old D&D games on the one where you became a demi-god and then skipped to NWN. But I do want to give it a go someday.
Just so you know, combat ain't the driving point of Planescape Torment. And you've often got options of avoiding combat with an intelligent character.


Also, on an unrelated note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCjzA-C647o
 :D
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Thump

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Re: The Witcher 2: total rubbish?
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2011, 08:04:51 am »

I've been enjoying The Witcher 2. It's not really groundbreaking and revolutionary (in game play or story telling) but the game play is fun enough to keep me playing, and the story is engrossing enough to keep me watching the cut scenes.

I don't know, I wasn't expecting an epic so I haven't been disappointed by the fact I'm not getting one... maybe some peoples' expectations were too high.
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Soulwynd

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Re: The Witcher 2: total rubbish?
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2011, 12:18:18 pm »

Just so you know, combat ain't the driving point of Planescape Torment. And you've often got options of avoiding combat with an intelligent character.
That's a good thing. Even tho in most games, avoiding the combat seems cheap. At least in Fallout 2 most combat avoidance made you feel dirty. :P

The medallion ain't a spidey sense, though. It detects magic. Witchers aren't magical, else it'd just thrash around under his jacket.

And I realize in gameplay it works as an item detector, story-wise (and in the books) it doesn't work that way.
It's a total spidey sense in the game. It goes humhum whenever there's danger, magic, or anything of interest. I don't care if it's not so in the book, but in the game it is and if they're going that way, they shouldn't contradict it.

Example:

Creatures are about to attack the witcher - Medallion HUMHUM.
The witcher walks by a place of power - HUMHUM!
There's an important item laying around - HUMHUM!

He even mentions, in the story part of the game, that his medallion detects danger and since it's not going crazy, that person isn't a threat to him.

Yeah, cause no one would assume Geralt killed the king if he killed two extra soldiers. "Durr, witcher and king went in. King is dead. What happened??". And where the heck do you think he'd run after being known for killing a king? He'd get overwhelmed and hanged at the nearest town if not for Vernon Roche. If yer gonna criticize the writing, then don't come up with completely inane alternatives. I wouldn't say Geralt doesn't give a crap about Triss either.[/spoiler]

Also, on an unrelated note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCjzA-C647o
 :D
Inane alternatives? INANE? You know, I will put this in spoilers:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So I'm sorry, your inane argument is inane because the game gives you the very same inane option you could inanely have right at the beginning if the prologue wasn't on inane rails.

So, don't be stupid and say crap like that when nearly everyone is happy you killed a king.

About Triss:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 12:24:26 pm by Soulwynd »
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Toady Two

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Re: The Witcher 2: total rubbish?
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2011, 01:06:15 pm »

Sorry. You are nitpicking and doing it badly.

You are forgetting that this is a role playing game. What Geralt does and what he is like depends on your choices. Sure you can just say "Geralt is a misogynist because I play him like that." but be aware that he does not have to be and in the book he definitely isn't. If you don't care for Triss you can go ahead and bang her along with loads of others, or you can be loyal to her just as you could in the first game. IIRC there was only one mandatory love interest in the Witcher 1 all the others were optional. Think of the other encounters as part of the "moral choices" only, like in real life, with no consequences or static number showing whether you are a good or bad person. Hell, in the second game you can even start putting down Triss after you've learned about a certain other sorceress that was very important to him in the book series.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Geralt allegedly killed the king just a few days/weeks ago and the kingdom was in shambles during the time. The manhunt and propaganda campaign against him hasn't really started yet. He can most surely terrorize some peasants and undisciplined soldiery in a backwater town from attacking him but it's only a matter of time till serious bounty hunter start looking for him, the ones that attack him in Act 1 are just thugs. In the game lore certain famous hunter can be as tough as witchers and they have killed a few. One such hunter was a high level boss in the first game. Now imagine several plotting to kill him using both honorable and dishonorable methods. Sure Geralt could hide in the woods for decades like Iorweth but he even makes a statement that life like that would suck.

The medallion on screen is an interface element. You think every time Geralt sees a wounded and dying character he should comment on his health bar being low? Or when he is about to fall into a trap should he exclaim that he sees red dots on the minimap? I never saw him mention the medallion detecting danger in dialog, maybe you misunderstood.
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