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[bitterhorn]

This sort of seems like it would remove the coolness and mystery of necromancers being active in the world. I would, however, support being able to learn necromancy in adventure mode, ideally through a long and dangerous quest chain involving talking to zombie dragons and visiting libraries in ruined cities warped by the very evil that destroyed them.

Agreed, the original idea strikes me as not the most dwarven milieu in the first place... and even if one disagrees as a matter of taste, the notion of an Individual Quest to Obtain Forbidden Secrets is inherently a bit antisocial & therefore perhaps better suited for the more personal scale of adventure mode.  The framework for an adventure you've described in this post sounds fun and exciting... but Fortress Mode + Necromancers = two great tastes that might well taste incredibly-weird together, IMHO.  Although, I suppose the idea of the individual fortress making enemies with its parent civilization is a bit intriguing...

[Beznogim]

Agreed, the original idea strikes me as not the most dwarven milieu in the first place... and even if one disagrees as a matter of taste, the notion of an Individual Quest to Obtain Forbidden Secrets is inherently a bit antisocial & therefore perhaps better suited for the more personal scale of adventure mode.  The framework for an adventure you've described in this post sounds fun and exciting... but Fortress Mode + Necromancers = two great tastes that might well taste incredibly-weird together, IMHO.  Although, I suppose the idea of the individual fortress making enemies with its parent civilization is a bit intriguing...

Human civilizations are quite often ruled by demons, so it doesn't seem that weird if a necromancer would suddenly become worshipped by one fortress. To make this Fun, the necromancer should be as much a problem for a fortress (many unhappy thoughts, for example) as he should be benefical (raising undead minions; elves will frequently ambush or siege you instead of arriving to trade; etc.)

[Nasikabatrachus]

To make this Fun, the necromancer should be as much a problem for a fortress (many unhappy thoughts, for example) as he should be benefical (raising undead minions; elves will frequently ambush or siege you instead of arriving to trade; etc.)

Since my first post in this thread I got to thinking: what if a necromancerdwarf were both antisocial and beneficial to the fortress?

Imagine if every wave of migrants had a low possibility (.01%?) of smuggling a necromancer into the fort. After a while the necrodwarf sneaks into the crypts, raises a whole army of undead dwarves, goblins, trolls, and elves, and wipes out the conventional population. Suddenly it's necromancerdwarf fortress mode. The necrodwarf has his or her crazed designs and interests which the player must fulfill, lest the necrodwarf become bored with life and decide to stop living. Zombie miners and masons build an obsidian tower for him or her and mindless craftszombies produce low quality items with which they glorify the humongous ego of the necrodwarf and brutish weapons to defend against the armies of the living aligned against the necromancer.

There should be signs for the player to be able to watch for, of course, like how that one dwarf's age seems to change every time it's checked, or how it likes "corpses for their obedience".

In short there are ways to make it interesting. IMO it should either be difficult--like requiring occasional irreversible sacrifices to keep working--and with drawbacks--like having every civ declare war on the fort when necromancy is practiced there--or it should completely change the nature of the particular fort.

[bitterhorn]

it likes "corpses for their obedience"

*shudder*

[bitterhorn]

So what happens when a necromancer gets in a Strange Mood?

Code: [Select]

Urist McNecro screams, 'I must have stillbirth placentae!'

[Doro]

Sounds cool.

imo, necromancing (aka, raising deads) should require some sort of difficult ritual or sacrifice which would exhaust your necromancer completely and he would fall into coma for few weeks / month and raised corpses should sometimes attack friendlies depending on necromancer's skill (if there is Necromancer skill).
corpses raised by novice necromancers would just be mindless fodders that are just staring into sky or attack any1 who comes near them, and when your necro gets more skilled, they would try and kill every1, even your dwarves and once legendary corpses should only rarely attack your own dwarves.

like item quality thing works currently. just an idea

[Waladil]

This is a *Dwarf Zombie* It is of exceptional quality...

[knaveofstaves]

Necromancy and Surgeon/Suturer must be made to work together.

Dr. Frankendorf! It's alive, ALLLIIIIIIIIIVE!

[Deimos56]

Necromancy and Surgeon/Suturer must be made to work together.

Dr. Frankendorf! It's alive, ALLLIIIIIIIIIVE!

Nonsense. We don't have lightning or lightning-based magic.

Although a surgeon/suturer working with a necromancer should probably produce more... held together... zombies.

[knaveofstaves]

Nonsense. We don't have lightning or lightning-based magic.

Although a surgeon/suturer working with a necromancer should probably produce more... held together... zombies.

I thought about this, and since I haven't actually seen necromancy in action it's hard to comment on issues of energy source. But: clearly dead flesh is being animated, so whatever magic is doing so can serve in lieu of lightning.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Considering the realism of the current game, and the seeming lack of insurmountable balancing issues (lightning doesn't equate to gunpowder in game breaking terms), it's certainly reasonable to suggest that lightning will at some point be added to the game.

[zair]

i think a simple personality trait "doesn't mind undead" should randomly pop up in dwarves, and be cultivatable. like if your fort discovers necromancy and you choose to use it, everybody without that trait would try to leave the fortress. if you trap them, eventually they could either develope this trait or tantrum from bad thoughs. children born in necro forts would automatically have it.

aside from just the dwarf culture reaction i do think you shouldnt easily be able to have an army of obedient undead like an evil necromancer would have. mybe evil necros get thier power and evilness from a demonic god, and good ones have to either constantly control their undead (very low number max) or put the soul of a freindly of some sort into the corpse without pissing the freindly off.

DEFINATELY a frankenstien crazy corpse compositing ability is needed. possibly useing a combo of butcher, suterer/surgeon, and necromancy

[SirHoneyBadger]

With undead capable of causing so much trouble, aside from all the negative associations we have with corpses, such a trait could be viewed as pathological, or maybe an effect of a fell mood?
It might better, or atleast further, be portrayed as an entity ethic, which would determine the entity's reaction to such associations.

You could also have something like,

Make entity member into zombie: Unthinkable.
Make neutral party into zombie: Shun.
Make enemy into zombie: Only-If-Sanctioned.

With some entities treating zombification as something akin to slavery--and either condoning  it, or disdaining it, while others might see it as making a trophy, or even honoring the fallen being, ally or enemy, while still others might view it as a fate worse than death, and an act worse than murder. Some entities with alien outlooks might not even see it as an issue at all. 

[blizzerd]

more like

This is a masterwork dwarven meat zombie. It menaces with spikes of leopard bone. On the item is a picture of neko the necromancer and cheese. neko is making a plaintive gesture, the cheese looks terrified.

tagged his creation

also zombies from friends should make those friends unhappy (and lovers etc etc) and should spread maisia in the hallway

[zair]

actually if toady ever puts in mercury that could be a way of preventing zombies from producing maismia (of course for a little while after the enbalming they would spread puddles of poisinous mercury) and @ SirHoneyBadger you mean sorta like how soldiers get used to freinds dying the more it happens? just general exposure to the dead gets you more used to them? like a society that hates zombies is under siege by them and begins to think it would be okay to zombify some goblins they had in cages to throw at the enemy, then they have some tame zombies left over after the siege and theygrew used to these zombies over time ect... that would also be cool...