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[Flying Dice]

When they made his Q into a skillshot, they increased the range 2 Teemos, but left the width and speed the same. The next patch they increased the speed a wee bit, and then next patch added another 1 Teemo. That and making his E stop dashes is all the balance he's gotten since his rework.

^^This.

I was looking back through patch notes, and that's all I could find. His Q's actually in a pretty good spot right now, solid scaling, range, and speed.

[UXLZ]

Anyone I can instagib as Veigar I can instagib as Xerath, or close enough that it doesn't really matter. Xerath is also significantly safer since his stun doesn't take 3 quarters of a second to come into existence. (That's discounting his range and superior waveclear.)

Yes, his old E was stupid, but his old E was necessary for defensive purposes as well as picking people off. People always seem to look at the E as its own, independent ability. Sure, put it on a Maokai or Amumu or something and it'd ridiculous, but it's not one those champs, it's on Veigar.
I wouldn't call it Farfetch'd to say an Ekko, LeBlanc, Zed, etc etc could kill you in the span of time it takes for your stun to pop into existence.

Yeah, I'm actually sort of alright with his Q now. The small speed increase and range increase has definitely made it a lot easier to hit (it still feels like CRAP though. The most peashooter of peashooters.) It still pisses me off that they gave it a longer cooldown and that Veigar lost all the reliability of both abilities. Really, I think the biggest issue at the moment is that his W is DESIGNED to be used in tandem with his E... But that doesn't work anymore, since there's a delay. Making his E functionally useless for bursting people made his W functionally useless for bursting people as well.

[Flying Dice]

Yeah, the missing E->W synergy is the real issue. A large AoE non-ult stun needs some sort of drawback -- take Ekko, he needs to both time a delayed skillshot and be in the AoE when it lands. If Veigar's stun was a line or cone skillshot or a single-target point-and-click, I suspect it would still be instant. That's the thing, it was a good tool for laning and dueling, but it was an absurdly good ability for teamfighting and still is, even after the nerf.

If there's something that really needs fixing, it would be his W. My initial thoughts on that would be to have the damage scale and give it a mechanic akin to Janna's Q, where you can double-tap to fire it instantly during any point in the wind-up, with the base damage and AP ratio scaling up based on how long you waited. That would keep it in place as a powerful waveclear tool while also allowing it to be integrated into a combo without needing a lengthy CC on the target.

[quinnr]

Man, sometimes I wish I could disable chat and pretend all the games were bot games. Like, I don't get put on tilt when I lose, but you best believe that people being total jerks in the chat will definitely make me lose the match. I can't stand it, like I gave you the lanes I am best at because you asked for them, even though I pick before you, I'm nothing but nice in the chat, especially when other players are having a bad game, and then you feel the need to be a total jerk when I'm not able to shut down a Nasus by myself as a champion you insisted I pick (we can't have an all AD comp, you need to play an AP top). Like sorry I can't play any champ in any lane perfectly >_>

[Putnam]

Man, sometimes I wish I could disable chat and pretend all the games were bot games.

...you can't?

that actually seems sorta implausible given riot's general ideas about chat (I.E "we can't put in voice chat until we solve the problem of sexism")

[UXLZ]

Re: Ekko. It's sort of hard, maybe? It's a huge AoE, includes the full AoE as opposed to just the edges, and it's not really that hard to be inside it when you have a blink and a dash on the same ability. It also gives him a shield, Veigar's is a stun and only a stun. (If Veigar had been released as a new champion you just know his E would have had a damage component or an added utility component.)

But yes, as far as I'm concerned his Q is in an alright (if not perfect) place, now that its range and speed are no longer utterly terrible.

The biggest issue is the W's reliance on the E, but another issue is his total lack of real defensive options now. Most melee champs that Veigar will have to worry about can kill him before his stun even finishes its delay, and anyone that isn't melee can mostly ignore it by walking a little bit to the left or right.

Veigar's old E had a delay anyway. It came out instantly, but it had a 0.25 second casting time.

And I'm still pissed off that they decided to nerf the AP ratio on his ultimate for no god damn reason.

[frostshotgg]

Ekko's W's drawback is that it's the single worst feeling skill in the game. It feels impossible to aim and use correctly as the Ekko, and when you do you get the bizarre combination of a stun and a shield that lasts the same length as the stun so the shield isn't actually useful in fight. Meanwhile, as an opponent it feels impossible to dodge because you get told where it's going to land so late, and when it does go off, even if you dodge the huge stun you still can't do shit to Ekko because of how massive the shield he gets is.

Man, sometimes I wish I could disable chat and pretend all the games were bot games.

...you can't?

that actually seems sorta implausible given riot's general ideas about chat (I.E "we can't put in voice chat until we solve the problem of sexism")

You can turn off /all chat which is a large part of the toxicity, and then you can just mute all of your teammates if you really want silence. There's even a handy dandy /mute @all command.

[UXLZ]

It really is quite a stupid mechanic. Am I correct in thinking that while the delay on the ability itself is enormous, the amount of forewarning the opposing team gets is quite small? I find that incredibly stupid. "Hey, let's make an ability that feels impossible to aim AND dodge!"

[Flying Dice]

The biggest issue is the W's reliance on the E, but another issue is his total lack of real defensive options now. Most melee champs that Veigar will have to worry about can kill him before his stun even finishes its delay, and anyone that isn't melee can mostly ignore it by walking a little bit to the left or right.

Come on man, that's more than a little exaggerated. Thing's big enough to span the gap between mid outer turrets and the wall on the other side of the lane, and you have to have something like a super-fed 6-item all-AD stacking Kha'Zix to blow someone up in less than a second.

And I'm still pissed off that they decided to nerf the AP ratio on his ultimate for no god damn reason.

This, though, all the feels. They took damage away right when he needed it the most.

[UXLZ]

I guess. The real issue is that he can't stun them where they are, he has to stun them when they're already on top of him.

[Flying Dice]

That's... not really true. You have to time your placement, but at the very least you should be able to trap them inside unless you facechecked brush or something. E blocking dashes means that it's still perfectly effective as an escape as long as you don't try to drop it where they are when you start casting. A lot of times they'll walk right into the edge, too.

[Flying Dice]

I... just watched Boxbox do a dramatic reading of a TSM slash fic on stream.

[penguinofhonor]

I thought the Veigar rework undeniably ruined him? I remember when it came out, it was so obvious that nobody even needed to spend a minute playing him before judging him as completely worthless now and worse in every way.

Was it the TSM slash fic? Godlike teamwork, I think?

[ZebioLizard2]

I thought the Veigar rework undeniably ruined him? I remember when it came out, it was so obvious that nobody even needed to spend a minute playing him before judging him as completely worthless now and worse in every way.

Was it the TSM slash fic? Godlike teamwork, I think?

Well he does about..a bit under 50% winrate, but he's not as bad as the Ryze rework.

http://www.lolking.net/champions/

[UXLZ]

OP.GG has him in the bottom 35 across all ranked divisions in NA.

Of course, it also has Lee Sin and Orianna as worse, so take that with a grain of salt.