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[Lord_lemonpie]

'Cinderhulk is really good on Sion jungle. I had almost 3000 hp at the ten minute mark.

[UXLZ]

Who would have possibly thought that the item that multiplies bonus health would be good on the champion that loves to stack bonus health and gets free bonus health from his abilities?

I think everyone was expecting that, lemonpie. = \

On a side note, I wonder if the DFG replacement item will be actually useful on the champions who used DFG...

[Lord_lemonpie]

Who would have possibly thought that the item that multiplies bonus health would be good on the champion that loves to stack bonus health and gets free bonus health from his abilities?

I think everyone was expecting that, lemonpie. = \

I've seen two Sions buidling warrior's, so I was just saying it. No need to be passive agressive...

[Flying Dice]

Who would have possibly thought that the item that multiplies bonus health would be good on the champion that loves to stack bonus health and gets free bonus health from his abilities?

I think everyone was expecting that, lemonpie. = \

On a side note, I wonder if the DFG replacement item will be actually useful on the champions who used DFG...

It's pretty explicitly not a DFG replacement, though, and I'm surprised anyone thought it would be after they went so far as to strip the same sort of mechanic from champion kits. It's a new, independent 120AP item which is predominantly useful for champions who never built DFG.

Haven't seen the item but a friend claims it's pretty scary on TF

Any thoughts on that?

I can see it. A big chunk of the champions who can use it also benefit from Lich Bane, and it increases their burst. TF in particular I can see liking it if his W cards can proc it, since that's basically an extra lower-damage-but-AoE Spellblade every time he uses W. That gives him waveclear when he bluecards and extra burst when he goes on someone.

[frostshotgg]

In theory, Luden's and DFG occupy the same slot on a given champion. They're both designed to make single target nukers better, but they way they make champ better differs. DFG makes the champ better at their one job, killing someone good, while Luden's tries to cover the weakness of single target nukers slightly by giving them some AoE. Luden's obviously has a slightly broader appeal because everybody wants more damage and such, but DFG was also pretty broadly purchased even outside of its niche.

That's at least the idea behind Luden's being the DFG replacement.

[Flying Dice]

IDK, I really don't see it that way. The mechanic isn't the same, and I think a lot of the perception of it as a DFG replacement is solely because it's filling that 120AP gap. Of all the champions I played who had good reason to build DFG (note: "People built DFG on lots of things" != "DFG was good on lots of things"), the only one I can think of who would also get good use from Luden's is Ahri, maybe. Not least because the way the passive works is pretty radically different from DFG's active. Rather than empowering one rotation to a really large degree every now and then, it gives a smaller boost to every rotation, which supports a pretty different selection of champions.

[UXLZ]

I was joking with you lemonpie, sorry. xD

Right. I wonder how good it is on AP Ezreal? My guess is a 5th/6th slot niche pick for extra burst over a bit extra health/utility (I usually build Rylais as the 6th slot.)
Since AP Ez really NEEDS: Boots, Lichbane, Deathcap.

[Flying Dice]

Well, it'd do wonders for his lack of waveclear. Def. only a late pickup, though.

[UXLZ]

How? Won't it just improve the damage on his Q, or does it work the same way as Shiv? (I was under the opinion it was UP to 4 others that you HIT with the ability. And since Ez's W doesn't actually hit creeps to begin with... :v)

[Flying Dice]

Hm, actually, let me go test it real quick.

[xaritscin]

played 6 of the 10 matches for ranked clasification, score is 3/3.....guess its bronze all over again. also, it seems i have good luck with sion in rankeds

[Flying Dice]

How? Won't it just improve the damage on his Q, or does it work the same way as Shiv? (I was under the opinion it was UP to 4 others that you HIT with the ability. And since Ez's W doesn't actually hit creeps to begin with... :v)

Okay, it does, but not in the way I was expecting. His E procs it, but none of his other spells do, and when it is procced it has a pretty long range (from one side of a tower's range of fire to the other was the farthest I tested). Looks like it's more nuanced than I expected, definitely going to test it on each champion before I ever buy it in a game.

Does look even better on Ahri now though, assuming it treats her W and R shots like Ez's E. Maybe it only procs when a spell is specifically targeted at units rather than a skillshot, even if the targeting isn't player-controlled? :?

[Jopax]

My guess is that it's procced by single target magic damage, which is why his Q or R wouldn't proc it, one is physical the other not single target, ditto for W.

[UXLZ]

I would have sworn I was proccing it on Xerath though, with his Qs...

If it isn't procced by Ez's Q that's bs. = \

[frostshotgg]

Ez's Q doesn't apply spell effects, which logically would include Luden's. It gets on-hit effects instead.

EDIT: Interestingly, various autoattack modifiers DO proc it. Including Cho's spikes, Kayle's ranged attacks, Jax's R passive, Kha's passive, Kennen's W passive, and TF's E passive, among others.