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[frostshotgg]

.75 sec delay on e.

[Tidal]

Doubletap on Q probably more than makes up for it.

[frostshotgg]

Doesn't matter if you can't stun anybody. .75 is a very, very long time.

[Solymr]

Honestly instantly stunning someone at that much range for 2.5 seconds or whatever its duration was was asking for a nerf.

[Skyrunner]

I hate it when the enemy adc picks jinx before me I have a really good winrate on jinx but not on other adcs (mostly because I haven't played anyone else in S5 yet).

Here goes, cait vs jinx...

[frostshotgg]

Veigar didn't need it though, and what he's getting in compensation (double Q stacking at higher cooldown and skillshot :| ) is just a slap in the face. It doesn't help that he's losing 0.2 ratio on his R too. He's pretty solidly middle of the line right now and hitting the one thing that allows him to succeed in the face of all the mobility other mages get. If he got something on his E to compensate for it becoming significantly less powerful I'd be less salty, but seriously? He gets mixed buffs/nerfs on everything else and his E is just nuked from orbit.

[Skyrunner]

It seems that it's not that I'm good at jinx, but that jinx is just op

*cries*

[RedKing]

Ah, my mistake.

Spoiler: Janna in the hands of a support player? (click to show/hide)

No, someone who plays a lot of support Janna wouldn't be dangerous, because their instinctive reactions would be to stick with teammates and focus on peeling for others. What you need to watch out for are the rare individuals who play AP Janna in top or mid, because they know exactly what to do with her. Usually at around 2-3 items you have enough AP to insta-clear waves with a single tornado. Once you're at that point (which should include Lich Bane), you splitpush forever. She gets 10% of her AP to movespeed, 10% to the bonus AD on the shield, and 70% to the shield strength.

With Morello's, Deathcap, Lich Bane, AP quints, and offensive masteries, you should have roughly 420 AP. That means that you have an additional 59% movement speed if you've got W maxed (or 51% with only one point in it). Your auto attacks while shielded do ~150 damage on average before resistances; your Lich Bane procs do around extra 260 magic damage. In the five seconds your shield is up, a level 12ish Janna with 1 point in E can do around 600-700 damage to a tower (before resistances) if she Qs the next wave.

And she's fast enough and has enough self-peel to escape from damned near anything. She can come back without a wave, shield herself, and do another 300-400 damage to the tower before it pops her shield. At level 12ish, with three items (assuming decent csing).

AP Janna is fucking annoying if she's careful and you don't have anything that can catch her. Her main weaknesses are being used to do anything other than splitpush eternally or siege/anti-siege, and teams that don't know how to use that to their advantage. At level 18 with 4-5 items an AP Janna forces enemy teams to engage when they might not want to, and then prevents their engage from working if she's with her team. Otherwise she takes towers nearly as quickly as anything short of a fed Triforce Nasus, though she's specifically build for denying duels rather than winning them.

At full build she can break 500 base movespeed and do more damage per hit than a full-build ADC (though her DPS is lower, because she has no attack speed or crit).

I'll have to give that a try. I gravitate towards support (as I do in pretty much ALL online games), and I build massive AP in the support role as well, because that slow builds up nicely, to where it's almost a root. Dart in, pop W on a target, and they're screwed trying to run away while the rest of my team has the wind at their back (pun intended). I use Q mostly to disrupt escape attempts or fend off engages. And sometimes for wave clears, but it's of secondary concern the way I play. Went 2/1/28 in the last match I played her in.

[Lord_lemonpie]

I hate it when the enemy adc picks jinx before me I have a really good winrate on jinx but not on other adcs (mostly because I haven't played anyone else in S5 yet).

Here goes, cait vs jinx...

B-but jinx is cait's hardest counter D:

[Bormok, God of Mud]

Veigar's E is absurd and I would be all for nerfing it if the little guy had some sort of mobility, but as it stands his E is not just a way to kill people it's also his only defense.

[Flying Dice]

Veigar didn't need it though, and what he's getting in compensation (double Q stacking at higher cooldown and skillshot :| ) is just a slap in the face. It doesn't help that he's losing 0.2 ratio on his R too. He's pretty solidly middle of the line right now and hitting the one thing that allows him to succeed in the face of all the mobility other mages get. If he got something on his E to compensate for it becoming significantly less powerful I'd be less salty, but seriously? He gets mixed buffs/nerfs on everything else and his E is just nuked from orbit.

What the fuck is this shit? He was already hit hard enough by losing DFG, and he was a situational pick even before that. It's not even like there wasn't counterplay -- if he doesn't place those stuns perfectly (or an enemy dodges it), he's fucked. What they should have done was clean up the graphics on his E so that you could tell where it actually started. Hell, there are other stuns in the game that are shorter than the gap between placing E and it activating. It's not like it was with Jinx, where her chompers were a bit of utility to help deal with her lack of escapes, the stun was more integral to Veigar's rotation than... just about anything, really.

And if I'm reading you right, the Q is going to be a fucking skillshot? When Veigar has always been about high-damage single-target nuking? Great, so he'll never be able to poke or burst anyone in lane ever again. And the nerf to his R is just gravy if that's genuinely a reduction of his base ratio rather than the one that scales with target AP.

[frostshotgg]

Q is now a skill shot that stops on second unit hit.
Grants 1 AP for each unit killed
Range increased to 850 from 650
Cooldown changed to 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 from 8/7/6/5/4

Dark Matter (W) :
Mana cost lowered to 70/75/80/85/90 from 70/80/90/100/110
Cooldown lowered to 10/9.5/9/8.5/8 from 10 at all ranks

Event Horizon (E) :

Now has a .75 second delay with a warning particle before walls pop up
Mana cost lowered to 80/85/90/95/100 from 80/90/100/110/120
Cooldown lowered to 18/17/16/15/14 from 20/19/18/17/16
Range increased to 700 from 650

Primordial Burst (R) :
AP Ratio lowered to 1.0 from 1.2
Mana cost lowered to 125 at all ranks from 125/175/225
Cooldown lowered to 120/100/80 from 130/110/90

[Frumple]

Heh, quicklike popped up a video of veig from the PBE. That reworked E... is there anything in the game more telegraphed than that?

Cheaper/quicker W is more interesting. Looking at the Q being used is... a thing. I mean, on one hand, blocked shots, missed shots, can be dodged, etc. On the other hand, someone really on the ball could conceptually farm AP twice as hard. You just have to kill two creeps with every shot. _{yeah, that's not going to happen}

Being spammier than before is mildly interesting, I guess. The E is now kinda' useless and the Q and R less dangerous, but... at least you can use most of them more often?

[frostshotgg]

I've never had mana issues on veig as it is. The mana cost reductions just feel like a taunt at this point. "Here, look at all the "help" we're giving him!"

[Frumple]

Was thinking the CD drop more than the mana. Everything 'cept the Q can get put out a lil'bit more often, which is something with more oomph than mana cost reductions.

Though I guess being able to put out Dark Matter more often is fairly pointless, since it wave-cleared fine as is, iirc. Shorter cooldown on the E just means they dodge it slightly more. The R's mildly quicker, which is something, but maybe not 1/6th-scale-reduction quicker >_>

... yeah, silver lining or not that's still pretty shitty.