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[RedKing]

All ADCs can indeed be quite weak

After ending up on the receiving end of all adcs, I can confirm this is not always the case. Having a team where any one of them can push to your inhibs[AND BEYOND~!] if you leave them unattended is pretty neat.

Well I think the idea is to not leave them unattended. In theory, if you give them all melee ADCs, they should be dominated early game and never be able to recover. Although if you let them farm for 20 minutes, then yeah eventually they're going to come wreck you.

[UXLZ]

I think that this mode is genuinely the most toxic I've ever seen.

Well, it is a mode about giving your opponents the most disadvantageous team/weakest champions you can. A single bad pick can make you almost insta-lose just from team comp

[IronyOwl]

I still enjoy Nemesis as a game mode, but it's a royal pain in the ass to start one. Nobody agrees on a plan, so everyone tries to pick what they think is the worst champ, and winds up giving the enemy team a workable mix.

And when I ask for suggestions, I don't get them until after I've picked and get yelled at for picking whatever I picked.

On the bright side, the mode has revealed to me that genuinely, objectively useless champs don't really exist. Tons of stuff looks weak until you're trying to give it to the enemy, at which point... uh...

I think that this mode is genuinely the most toxic I've ever seen.

I was gonna comment on this, but I never did. Of the small amount of games I've played, it really did seem like more often than not there was at least one vocal asshole in them. It was pretty weird.

In most cases they didn't even sound that angry or wait until we were losing to start, either. It seemed more like those weird class of people who just aren't aware that "lol stupid" is generally considered rude, and so kind of alternate between "gg I'm done" and "gj push turret" at will.

All ADCs can indeed be quite weak

After ending up on the receiving end of all adcs, I can confirm this is not always the case. Having a team where any one of them can push to your inhibs[AND BEYOND~!] if you leave them unattended is pretty neat.

Well I think the idea is to not leave them unattended. In theory, if you give them all melee ADCs, they should be dominated early game and never be able to recover. Although if you let them farm for 20 minutes, then yeah eventually they're going to come wreck you.

I've wanted to try this and never been able to, but the thing that scares me about it is that teams are so much more awkward in this mode. That makes me suspect that anything that scales well is going to be dangerous simply because shutting them or the game down in a timely manner is much less likely.

[Flying Dice]

Heh, the key is to give them all ADCs after they give you Taric.

But yes, I've seen the normal share of that sort of toxic player, but also the sort that whines and blames people all game because he gets caught out, cries in allchat, and then at the lobby post-game tells the enemy team to report his teammates for being toxic.

[Arcvasti]

To be fair, its really frustrating being given certain champions. For example, I really fucking hate having to play Zilean. Sure he has good poke, but it requires you to walk within the instagib range of quite a few champions. And he has no instant damage or hard cc[Although his slow is admittedly awesome]. Or even three real basic abilities. And his ult relies on having a competent teammate playing a chamption who can carry, a rare commodity in Nemesis. As Zilean, your only weapons are[time-delayed] feather pillows, your only defense a slow/speed boost and your only major value to your team your ult. And let's not forget that your abilities cost a metric imperial fuckton of mana. Even under the best conditions, Zilean relies on a carry to follow up on his slows and be made immortal by his ult.

[/rant]

[Flying Dice]

Unless you build him well, in which case your double-bombs are massive chunk (relative to the damage of most of what gets picked) and insta-clear waves without getting caught. 'cause honestly you shouldn't be giving out champions with strong burst, gapclosers, or CC. His main weakness is his early laning, since just about anything normally played can keep shoving him under tower; once you're past that you're golden. Sort of like Janna in that respect, actually, not a whole lot of direct damage but very good at kiting and being annoying if there's nothing that can jump onto him and stick.

Besides, the champion you get in no way affects your ability to watch the map, ward, respond to pings, or judge situations. It's actually rather interesting -- barring situations where one team is dumb and gives out good champions or someone ragequits it tends to come down to which team is better at grouping, splitting, vision control, and map awareness, because nobody has stupid-strong carry champs to coast with.

[RedKing]

Had a Nemesis match where they gave me Xin Zhao. They paid dearly for that. Though it was a bit weird to be Xin Zhao mid against Nidalee. She had the advantage early on with ranged vs my melee. But once I had E, things went badly for her. Their AD Soraka wound up having to duo lane mid just to hold the line against me, while our bot duo of Nunu (really, why do people think Nunu is bad?) and Sona were nomming up their Taric/Janna like they were covered in peanut butter and chocolate.

Soraka having to come mid to help out left their top with just Singed against Trundle/Zac (and Zac quickly started roaming as a quasi-jungler to counter their roaming Soraka).

Towards the end, I could E+W+Q and just destroy most of their champs at will, 1-on-1.


So yeah...don't give a bursty gap closer in Nemesis, kids.

[Flying Dice]

Your team gave them... Sona. And Nidalee. As 'weak' champions. That really should have been a well-deserved loss, but they gave you Trundle and Xin, and I'll bet they build Sona as a support and Nid as if it were season 3. 

Nunu's not great if he's played in lane -- either you go tanky AP and are meh, or you go pure AP and die instantly but have snowballs of doom, with your only real upside being insane sustain. It's stupid to give him because he grants practically uncontested supremacy in terms of taking away jungle objectives even in a normal match.

[RedKing]

I think that was offset by how they used them. Soraka as a roamer and Nidalee solo mid seems utterly backwards to me. Had they gone AD Soraka mid and Nidalee jungle, it probably would have gone far worse for us.

Apparently their Janna and Taric didn't coordinate well either.

And no, they gave *us* Sona. I gave them Janna. Which was dangerous, but I find that people who don't play a lot of support fail to use her to full potential.

[Flying Dice]

Ah, my mistake.

Spoiler: Janna in the hands of a support player? (click to show/hide)

No, someone who plays a lot of support Janna wouldn't be dangerous, because their instinctive reactions would be to stick with teammates and focus on peeling for others. What you need to watch out for are the rare individuals who play AP Janna in top or mid, because they know exactly what to do with her. Usually at around 2-3 items you have enough AP to insta-clear waves with a single tornado. Once you're at that point (which should include Lich Bane), you splitpush forever. She gets 10% of her AP to movespeed, 10% to the bonus AD on the shield, and 70% to the shield strength.

With Morello's, Deathcap, Lich Bane, AP quints, and offensive masteries, you should have roughly 420 AP. That means that you have an additional 59% movement speed if you've got W maxed (or 51% with only one point in it). Your auto attacks while shielded do ~150 damage on average before resistances; your Lich Bane procs do around extra 260 magic damage. In the five seconds your shield is up, a level 12ish Janna with 1 point in E can do around 600-700 damage to a tower (before resistances) if she Qs the next wave.

And she's fast enough and has enough self-peel to escape from damned near anything. She can come back without a wave, shield herself, and do another 300-400 damage to the tower before it pops her shield. At level 12ish, with three items (assuming decent csing).

AP Janna is fucking annoying if she's careful and you don't have anything that can catch her. Her main weaknesses are being used to do anything other than splitpush eternally or siege/anti-siege, and teams that don't know how to use that to their advantage. At level 18 with 4-5 items an AP Janna forces enemy teams to engage when they might not want to, and then prevents their engage from working if she's with her team. Otherwise she takes towers nearly as quickly as anything short of a fed Triforce Nasus, though she's specifically build for denying duels rather than winning them.

At full build she can break 500 base movespeed and do more damage per hit than a full-build ADC (though her DPS is lower, because she has no attack speed or crit).

[IronyOwl]

I knew I was playing her wrong, but I didn't realize how wrong. If I jump back into that game mode and end up with Janna, now I know what to do~.

[Lord_lemonpie]

The Wonder Above

Seems interesting, but still no Ao Shin

[UXLZ]

Ao Shin is so ridiculous, it literally means "Blue Death". I hope it actually suits his character...

[frostshotgg]

Huge Veigar nerfs on the PBE that are all but garunteed to go on live. Goddamnit Riot, stop hitting my favorite champions that nobody plays. This is getting stupid.

[ThtblovesDF]

Veigar is really good, tbh... - what kind of nerfs, thou? Like if the Stun time or size on the E go down, thats... ok, it was always really strong - hell, even the ult could take a tiny nerf of sorts - but then again the removal of dfg should have been enough - unlike most "op" ap nukers, he is and always will be low mobility, easy to kill fella that does go on long-ish cooldowns after nuking one person, which is balanced enough imo - strenght and weaknesses, not like some other "haveitall" champs...