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[UXLZ]

To be fair, if you aren't a total newbie you should know most of the roles at least somewhat competently. Maybe 100 wins is around the time that I'd expect it? Though them abusing you over it is a big no-no.

Do note that you're really just crippling yourself if you refuse to learn everything, since you won't have a good understanding of how that role works and won't be able to play against it as well as you could otherwise.

[defeeca]

btw taric aint bad at nemesis mode so stop pickking him for enemy

[RedKing]

To be fair, if you aren't a total newbie you should know most of the roles at least somewhat competently. Maybe 100 wins is around the time that I'd expect it? Though them abusing you over it is a big no-no.

Do note that you're really just crippling yourself if you refuse to learn everything, since you won't have a good understanding of how that role works and won't be able to play against it as well as you could otherwise.

Meh. This is why I spend 99% of my play time against bots. Because PvP seems to take it from the level of a game to that of a sport. And people get way too damn worked up over sports.

Just like the "Open Letter to Parents of LoL Players" recently, that seemed to say if you're a parent and make your kid stop playing in the middle of a match, you're a horrible person.

[IronyOwl]

Meh. This is why I spend 99% of my play time against bots. Because PvP seems to take it from the level of a game to that of a sport. And people get way too damn worked up over sports.

I don't think being expected to at least nominally play every part of the game is getting too worked up over it. Expecting everybody to be able to play every role well, sure, but owning a 450 champ or two and being able to make a crude pantomime of it doesn't sound unreasonable. And as mentioned, even if you never actually play it yourself, it's a handy perspective to have.

Just like the "Open Letter to Parents of LoL Players" recently, that seemed to say if you're a parent and make your kid stop playing in the middle of a match, you're a horrible person.

Well, it is a dick move to ten people.

[RedKing]

Just like the "Open Letter to Parents of LoL Players" recently, that seemed to say if you're a parent and make your kid stop playing in the middle of a match, you're a horrible person.

Well, it is a dick move to ten people.

Nine. And really only a dick move to four of them (it's a gimme to five). And IT'S A GAME.
Yes, I could see the issue in the case of ranked play. But otherwise? No, this is LoL players highly over-valuing the importance of their game in the grand scheme of things.


Just had my first Nemesis match. That was fun.

Leona (me), Nami, Evelynn, Rammus and Shen vs. Cho'Gath, Janna, Sona, Orianna and.....I forget the fifth. Braum, maybe?

Overlapping supports is not necessarily the way to go, that was tougher than expected. Thankfully, our Eve jungled and ganked like a boss. Enemy Cho....not so much.

[Skyrunner]

It's nine if it's a normals. my ideal normals game is a challenging win, not a roflstomp.

[Flying Dice]

Should you pay attention to what has already been picked when giving out champions in Nemesis? Signs point to yes.

That was Zac/Taric top vs. Aatrox/Poppy. We won every fight easily, starting at level 2 trades. They gave us Taric as last pick, after they knew what they had.

Of course that's balanced out by the other matches I've played being laggy, having AFKers, people giving Talon in lobby, &c.

[IronyOwl]

Nine. And really only a dick move to four of them (it's a gimme to five).

It's a dick move to anyone on the other team that was hoping for a genuine game, and it's a dick move to your kid if he was hoping to finish said game. Probably not gonna be ten every time, but if they haven't surrendered already it's probably a fair crowd.

And IT'S A GAME.
Yes, I could see the issue in the case of ranked play. But otherwise? No, this is LoL players highly over-valuing the importance of their game in the grand scheme of things.

"Grand scheme of things?" We're talking about ruining several peoples' 45-minute long game so you can get your kid to bed fifteen minutes earlier. There is no fate of the world side to take here, but one side's got much higher numbers.

Should you pay attention to what has already been picked when giving out champions in Nemesis? Signs point to yes.

That was Zac/Taric top vs. Aatrox/Poppy. We won every fight easily, starting at level 2 trades. They gave us Taric as last pick, after they knew what they had.

I swear people have such issues with this. Almost anything can work, but all things being equal you should probably not give the enemy team a setup that looks like they might have chosen it themselves.

Bonus Mode: Don't give them any junglers. This one's harder to pull off, especially if they're willing to be creative, but it's a nice boost if your team has a jungler and theirs doesn't.

[Flying Dice]

What's really funny is when people ban Sona as if getting Sona would be a bad thing. Same deal with Leona, honestly, given how easy it is for a bruiser Leona to dominate in a game with shitty comps.

[Astral]

Bonus Mode: Don't give them any junglers. This one's harder to pull off, especially if they're willing to be creative, but it's a nice boost if your team has a jungler and theirs doesn't.

Technically, anyone can jungle, it's just a matter of how badly. I've seen some rather unorthodox junglers work in the past; who knows, with this game mode we might find a hidden gem or two that weren't previously considered due to a combination of those characters' previous roles and a bit of complacent gaming syndrome.

On the other hand, getting a jungle for your own team while not having one on the enemy just puts undue pressure on top lane, meaning that the jungle ends up having to babysit more often than not to keep the lane balanced if it's a bad matchup. Two people on the enemy team get farmed, while only the jungle from your team does, leaving the extra enemy in lane the freedom to go off and jungle or gank as needed, and often ensuring that whoever started with the 1v2 never catches up if they don't.

Better hope your other lanes aren't losing.

Regarding that "Open Letter" thing, I think Penny Arcade puts it nicely... I have no children of my own, nor do I plan to have any in the near future, but can see both sides of the argument as equally valid to some degree. The gamer in me says that one shouldn't ruin a bunch of other, real people's games based off arbitrary times, and that the parents setting said arbitrary times should be better informed about those games their children play, while the realist in me says that children are conniving, malicious beasties that will look for any opportunity to continue milking time for their addiction when they can, and they need to be taught a bit about how to manage their real life requirements against their in-game obligations, even if that means cutting play time short in the midst of an ongoing match.

[DemonOfWrath]

Well, it depends on how competent the person on their own is. If they know what they're doing then they just stay alive and farm under tower, while the opposing duo have to split farm and thus not get much. The hard part is getting someone who doesn't just expect to be babysat/knows how to play safe. I mean, there's a reason there's usually a jungler, rather than two duo lanes.
(As a top laner who can play, and enjoy, Nasus, I don't have much respect for people who are incapable of laning safely and just expect babysitting if they fall behind/unexpectedly get 2v1'd or such, especially if I'm the babysitter as I'd like to affect the entire map, not just bail one guy out repeatedly.)

Played one game of nemesis and that was enough for me. Other team got given an actual comp, we had a disconnect until 10 mins in, and half the team had no clue how to use their champs (seeing an Azir use turret on cooldown for no reason makes me cry). No amount of the Taric I'd been given could save it, and I sure tried. I'd guess I'm in the minority that doesn't find the crazy game modes fun though.

[Flying Dice]

Eeh, Nemesis is almost certainly the worst one yet (URF 2.0 when?).

That said, the "they have to split farm" argument is pretty much null if they send two melee champs with Targon's. That is, incidentally, also an excellent thing to do in ARAM; every melee champ taking it gives a pretty substantial gold advantage. The only place it would hurt is in XP, and that would only matter if your top is someone who can 1v2 (Renekton, ferex), which you'll never get.


RE: Open Letter: While I sympathize heavily with gamers who have to deal with losing a player due to that, I'd be extremely hesitant to argue that parents should familiarize themselves with the games their children play, and tailor bedtime, dinnertime &c. to that. Even if they don't understand what they're doing, by setting these arbitrary deadlines and forcing their children to comply they're teaching valuable life skills. I'm honestly surprised nobody has brought it up; do none of you remember what it was like, being a conniving little shit trying to scrape by as much extra time doing X as possible?

It teaches little people that they won't always have complete control over their schedules, it teaches them to judge manage time properly (aka to not go into matchmaking twenty minutes before bed), and it teaches them to bargain properly ("Mom, I'll mow the lawn on Saturday if you let me finish playing this.") versus whining ("But Mo-oom!").

Of course, there are plenty of cases where the parents are just being arbitrary assholes and changing things around, which is the set of cases where I completely agree.

[GreatJustice]

The thing about Nemesis is that people tend to have bad ideas about how to make a useless teamcomp, and there's always that one guy that gives the enemy Kassadin or Nasus. Plus, a bad teamcomp isn't the same as just picking bad champs.

For example, last game the enemy team picked out Nunu, Nami, Urgot, Karthus and Soraka, which, while somewhat lacking, was an entirely functional team since Karthus can safely farm top 2v1, Nunu is an actual jungler, and Nami is surprisingly strong midlane. Meanwhile, they had an all AP team of Syndra, Ryze, Veigar, Janna and Zilean. Despite having stronger champs on paper, they suffered very hard for giving us a workable team. Also, don't give Karthus if you don't have assassins because he can get fed and chunk people just by ulting whenever it comes up, though to be fair Veigar and Zilean were semi-useful over the course of the game since our team was somewhat AP heavy.

[Lord_lemonpie]

Nautilus is underrated..

I even accidentaly stole baron with my ult (i think it was my ult, could've also been my e).

[RedKing]

So I finally read up on jungling, built a rune page, mastery page and item set for it, and ventured out into the preschool wilds of beginner bots to try my hand at jungle Poppy (hey, that's about the only jungle-friendly champ I have)

lol i'm bad at this

Didn't really fail, in that I never died, but I went 1/0/0 and lagged behind the rest of the team by 2-3 levels. I did manage to solo the dragon at the end of the match, but by that point Akali was 45/1/8 and I didn't really matter two shits. She was spawn camping and cranking out pentakills every 30 seconds.