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[frostshotgg]

It amuses me deeply that your example of champions with game-changers are all assassins, and of them the one one with an actual teamfight-winning ult is Fiora, and hers just got gimped.

[xaritscin]

its more of the fact they some of them need just 1 kill and/or 1 item to outcompete their enemies in lane, and become hard to catch in teamfights, yeah you can apply CC to yi or fiora, but fizz will just happily jump out and kill you, even at the lowest lvls.

[frostshotgg]

Yi or Fiora with just one item is pretty pathetic. Fizz with one item varies, depending on what that one item is.

Methinks you just have issues with assassins.

[Arcvasti]

Fizz is nasty and is actually a decent pick against some lanes. Yi and Fiora wreck anyone without hard cc, burst damage, escapes or tankiness. So, Karthus and friends.

[Sharp]

I love facing Fiora top, but I go Zac and get a thornmail and sunfire cape so her ults don't do much to me. Extra fun if I take smite and get Gromp buff as well

[ThtblovesDF]

-snip-
3. The sonar system actually looks quite balanced. There's a difference in size between champion and minion pings, but it's not incredibly obvious. Likewise, you can't tell who a ping is without getting into melee range or surfacing (if in a lane/open area) -- that person around the corner from you could be their 0/7/1 Jinx, or it could be their 12/2/7 Riven. It's Schrödinger's Champion, and if you open the door and get unlucky, you're probably dead. A lot of the deaths in the videos and streams I watched came from the streamer following and popping up at a champion ping, only for it to be someone who could easily solo them or two people moving very closely.

Likewise, with the tiny range of vision while burrowed, you can't see skillshots -- you can't even tell if the champion following you is one who has skillshots for you to dodge, or what sort of skillshots they might be, so you just have to juke and hope, because unburrowing is even worse: you lose your regen and movespeed buff.

That said, the champ is still absurdly strong by all appearances.

I heard you can place wards and use trinkets while burrowed, making things a bit silly.
My main issue is that this champ demands a lot of "how do i counter/deal/what to do" from enemy players, but little of the actual player. Jump people, do 3 hits and dive off, the "optimal damage path" is just one row of keypresses : I

[Flying Dice]

Fizz is nasty and is actually a decent pick against some lanes. Yi and Fiora wreck anyone without hard cc, burst damage, escapes or tankiness. So, Karthus and friends.

"Stuns: All it takes is one."

Seriously. That's why Yi isn't a viable pick in higher-ELO ranked games against most teamcomps. That, and what frost mentioned. Yi's only a terror because people don't understand how to deal with champions like that. You don't all run away when he charges you, you stun/bind him and kill the bugger. It's not like the days of AP Yi where he was a 'press Q, receive penta' machine.

You know what you do if someone picks Yi jungle? You pick Rammus and maybe build a thornmail if he starts getting kills. Or you pick Nunu and eat all of his jungle. Or you pick Amumu and he insta-dies every teamfight when he gets locked down. Assassins like that are literally only dangerous if you let them be. They have to be super-fed to be dangerous, and the only way for them to get super-fed is to be scared of them while they're weak. It's like laning against a Veigar: sure, your initial response is "oh god no pls", but you're better off trying to bully them.

It's sort of like a Jax, Nasus, or Irelia, except with less inevitability and the chance of preventing them from ever becoming relevant with enough early pressure.

[xaritscin]

played some unorthodox builds against bots in this double PI weekend. Top Graves is quite powerfull even without using an ADC build.

-trinity
-frozen heart
-athene's unholy grail
-BoTRK
-last whisper
-mercury's boots

his skills do enough damage and has dashes for days :v

note: this build also works with nocturne and jarvan

[Jopax]

I've been thinking. The last several champs, they were all pretty radical takes on your usual roles with some really fresh and new mechanics introduced.

All that makes me wonder how out there Ao Shin must've been for them to push him back a year, because if he's even odder than what we've got in the last few patches I have a feeling he'll be awesome/shit depending on what you're looking for.

[Arcvasti]

IIRC, Ao Shin's delay was mostly because he was literally hell to animate, being a storm dragony thing with no legs and possibly a second form.

[penguinofhonor]

.

[xaritscin]

I just realized Rek'Sai is going to be worthless in ARAM. I guess no champion is perfect.

yeah, no possibility to backdoor there, the nearest bush cannot cover both entrances.

[xaritscin]

also, won a match as AD chogath :V, dat sustain :3

[Skyrunner]

I want to play Ultimate Bravery. It's a custom game mode where you take a randomized champ, summoner spells, and first-max skill, then buy the entire set of randomized items in order, starting from boots and enchantment. It's very amusing because your dysfunctional item build usually means it's hard to snowball really hard and fast! Plus you get to adapt to new item builds and play styles. But sadly, most people (at least me) don't have 9 friends to play it with

(Also that item generator is slightly bugged, it often generates a jungle item without giving you smite)

[Tidal]

I want to play Ultimate Bravery. It's a custom game mode where you take a randomized champ, summoner spells, and first-max skill, then buy the entire set of randomized items in order, starting from boots and enchantment. It's very amusing because your dysfunctional item build usually means it's hard to snowball really hard and fast! Plus you get to adapt to new item builds and play styles. But sadly, most people (at least me) don't have 9 friends to play it with

(Also that item generator is slightly bugged, it often generates a jungle item without giving you smite)

I used to play a whole bunch of this, it's super fun. Consider joining the Ultimate Bravery channel to find people to play with! I played with people from there and Factions, if you're into that sorta thing.