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[Skyrunner]

I fully expect that by this time next year every champ will have a shield, a mobility ability, or both.

Ashe will have mobility spells by next year -- Flying Dice, 2014


(I'm seriously waiting )

[Flying Dice]

I fully expect that by this time next year every champ will have a shield, a mobility ability, or both.

Ashe will have mobility spells by next year -- Flying Dice, 2014


(I'm seriously waiting )

*Or a shield. I'm seriously tempted to put a spoof 40K intro text snippet here.

But yeah, of all the champions to rework for "clarity", I really don't understand Sona. Her auras are giant glowing colored circles which also visibly change your stats and give you a buff icon which you can mouseover for a summary of the effects. Her ult is -- both visually and aurally -- one of the most distinctive abilities in the game. TBH it sounds like an excuse to remake her into flavor of the week for no good reason. :|

[penguinofhonor]

Hint: the tiny, incredibly ignorable numbers in the bottom left of your screen are the last place you should be going for examples of clarity.

[Flying Dice]

Hint: the tiny, incredibly ignorable numbers in the bottom left of your screen are the last place you should be going for examples of clarity.

Speaking of clarity...

giant glowing colored circles ... buff icon

Or maybe it's just selective reading comprehension. If they wanted to make them more obvious, they could have done some art work to make the aura circles 'pop' more. Instead of, y'know, killing a fairly unique dynamic in favor of MORE SHIELDS.

e: LISTEN TO THIS BULLSHIT FROM RITO

I would argue that the aura granting something visible and clearly understood makes Sona more defined in her auras. Old auras where these ill defined blobs of color that were pretty much just there, even though they had huge power implications. Having auras that Sona can actually feel good about only make her more of Aura champ.

Only the finest doubletalk newspeak here.

she is no longer a champ that sits in the brush a screen away from the fight and still wins the fight for her team

HAVE YOU NEVER PLAYED SONA IN YOUR LIFE?

Having had many of our internal Sona mains play this kit, I am confident that the changes move Sona in a rewarding direction, as well as being better for the game.

AKA some of our playtesters who own Sona didn't immediately reject it.

Maybe I'd be less negative about this if it didn't smell like shit. It's pretty telling that there are more complaints about this than about the Nidalee buff one patch after her buff-rework.

[Putnam]

Is Riot still on about that "burden of knowledge" stuff? Oy. I know they've moved away from that post that talked about game design and basically repeatedly had examples of bad game design all of which were Dota (I'm petty, but then so are they) even though the examples they give aren't really bad game design and the fact that you've spent entire pages complaining about conveyance and balance shows that Riot's just inflating their own sense of good game design and taking potshots at Dota as usual.

oh shit I went on a rant in the wrong spot >_> (not saying I meant to post it somewhere else, just saying that it's probably not appreciated here for obvious reasons). Not deleting it because when I make a mistake I'm damn well gonna keep it around as a reminder of my failures (such things encourage not repeating them).

[Flying Dice]

No, I firmly believe on calling devs on their bullshit whenever it arises. I honestly don't understand the mentality that drives people to flock to the defense of dubious decisions made by people who will never acknowledge them -- particularly when it's attempts to trivialize or suppress the opinions of anyone who questions them. I guess I picked up the habit from playing certain games made by certain Russian devs, but it's proven to be worthwhile everywhere.

Like this bullshit about 'enhancing clarity' and making champions feel like each has their own, unique kit? That works when you're reworking (say) Nidalee to be less binary and more interesting to play and play against, as well as making her skills both more intuitive and more visible. That doesn't work when you're taking a champion with a fairly unique kit/mechanical setup and a distinct character and turning them into more of the same boring stuff that you've been churning out as opposed to, say, updating their art and effects to be more distinctive.

I mean, this is probably the most vehemently I've rejected anything Riot has ever done, because they're metaphorically castrating one of my favorite champions for no good reason.

[frostshotgg]

Putnam, if I recall what post you're talking about properly, I believe they were talking about in the context of the genre. At the time, SMITE didn't exist, and HoN was just a reskin of dota anyways, so of course they were going to talk about dota, and the context of "Things to not do" it doesn't exactly make sense to point out the parts that are just fine. I'm sure they'd have called out other games, were any to exist.

[Putnam]

Yeah, true, that example is probably not them being petty, the post is damn old.

[IronyOwl]

Or maybe it's just selective reading comprehension. If they wanted to make them more obvious, they could have done some art work to make the aura circles 'pop' more. Instead of, y'know, killing a fairly unique dynamic in favor of MORE SHIELDS.

I don't think the problem was the visibility of the little circles around her and her allies. The problem was that the non-active part of her skills was just sort of there, silently buffing everyone's numbers. MS you could at least notice in theory because you could see yourself moving a little faster, but I'm not sure I ever did in practice and for everything else you needed a calculator.

Consider Aegis as a comparison. It's not hard to see when somebody's packing one- that little yellow n blue thingy's fairly noticeable and very distinctive. But that doesn't mean you're always thinking to yourself "Boy, sure am glad my ally has an aegis or that spear would have hit 10% harder and my life regen would be half what it is now!" You just mentally file it away as "good thing I have an aegis, that's probably helping in some way."

Currently, Sona's auras are exactly that. When you remember they're up, it occurs to you that they're probably helping somewhat. Otherwise, you probably don't remember that they're up or know exactly what they're doing, because it's passive math.

e: LISTEN TO THIS BULLSHIT FROM RITO

I would argue that the aura granting something visible and clearly understood makes Sona more defined in her auras. Old auras where these ill defined blobs of color that were pretty much just there, even though they had huge power implications. Having auras that Sona can actually feel good about only make her more of Aura champ.

Only the finest doubletalk newspeak here.

The only part of this I'd disagree with is that calling shield-granting snuggle-zones "auras" strikes me as a bit off. Yes, they're area effects that apply buffs to allies... but I dunno if "aura" is the right word at that point.

The part I would agree with is that if we can call those auras, she'll definitely be more of an aura champ now. Present Sona's a supporty support and aura totem. A Sona with stronger "aura" effects that she has to apply more carefully would be a supporty support because of her auras, not in addition to them.

she is no longer a champ that sits in the brush a screen away from the fight and still wins the fight for her team

HAVE YOU NEVER PLAYED SONA IN YOUR LIFE?

I will have to acknowledge that this is dumb and doesn't happen. What?

Having had many of our internal Sona mains play this kit, I am confident that the changes move Sona in a rewarding direction, as well as being better for the game.

AKA some of our playtesters who own Sona didn't immediately reject it.

Maybe I'd be less negative about this if it didn't smell like shit. It's pretty telling that there are more complaints about this than about the Nidalee buff one patch after her buff-rework.

I don't think complaint volume is a good measure of Riot honesty or... well, much of anything, to be honest.

[Flying Dice]

Or maybe it's just selective reading comprehension. If they wanted to make them more obvious, they could have done some art work to make the aura circles 'pop' more. Instead of, y'know, killing a fairly unique dynamic in favor of MORE SHIELDS.

I don't think the problem was the visibility of the little circles around her and her allies. The problem was that the non-active part of her skills was just sort of there, silently buffing everyone's numbers. MS you could at least notice in theory because you could see yourself moving a little faster, but I'm not sure I ever did in practice and for everything else you needed a calculator.

Consider Aegis as a comparison. It's not hard to see when somebody's packing one- that little yellow n blue thingy's fairly noticeable and very distinctive. But that doesn't mean you're always thinking to yourself "Boy, sure am glad my ally has an aegis or that spear would have hit 10% harder and my life regen would be half what it is now!" You just mentally file it away as "good thing I have an aegis, that's probably helping in some way."

Currently, Sona's auras are exactly that. When you remember they're up, it occurs to you that they're probably helping somewhat. Otherwise, you probably don't remember that they're up or know exactly what they're doing, because it's passive math.

Spoiler: RE: "Little" (click to show/hide)

That? That right there is why I don't buy any of the arguments regarding visibility. It's a set of different-colored glowing, rotating circles that are thrice as wide as her character model.

On the other note, the same argument could be applied to literally any other buff that isn't a shield or heal; at least Sona's auras have a visible sign of their presence in the form of their circles. I'll just list off the top of my head the number of ability-derived buffs (both self-applied and 'giftable') which have nothing but the buff icon on the toolbar (if that): Nidalee's E AS buff, Janna's passive and E AD buffs, Hecarim's passive AD buff, Poppy's passive DR and W AD/Armor buff, Akali's passive spellvamp and damage buffs, Heimerdinger's passive HP regen buff, Darius' E APen buff, Nasus' passive lifesteal, Fiora's W AD buff, Pantheon's E crit chance buff, Olaf's R passive buffs, Sejuani's passive bonus armor and slow reduction, &c. &c.

The game is literally stuffed with passive effects which boost stats, and Sona's auras are actually among the few that do have distinctive non-icon indicators that they exist. Either they didn't give more than a few moments' thought to these changes, or the whole 'clarity' heap of crap is just an excuse. I "remember" that my auras are up as much as I remember my passive boosts on any champion, and unlike most they're also fairly evident if the Sona is a teammate rather than me. The only audience I could see not noticing that they exist is composed solely of new/bad players who don't have and don't seek to develop an understanding of even the most basic aspects of any champion they don't own.

Also, and this point has been raised quite often elsewhere: A triggered shield is not an aura. A single on-hit damage bonus is not an aura. A brief spike in movespeed is not an aura. An aura is a sustained effect which persists, rather than something which briefly exists, triggers an effect, and vanishes. If we're going to be pedantic, it's this:

the distinctive atmosphere or quality that seems to surround and be generated by a person, thing, or place

AKA a permanent or semi-permanent quality.


Sorry if I'm being a little overbearing here, but it really hurts to see one of my favorite champions (in terms of backstory, character, core mechanics, and playstyle) be disemboweled as part of Riot's current obsession with flashy effects over interesting mechanics. Also, we already have a support/AP caster who can give shields and speed boosts to allies while delivering decent damage and CC. She's called Karma.

[Skyrunner]

I don't get why you think sona's auras are very obvious. Sure, she has shiny circles beneath her, but most of the time I don't care. They're just kinda there. Having a visual marker isn't the same as being clear in how they work.

Plus, the auras have really tiny effects that aren't obvious at all. I don't plan on doing X when her aura is in the purple state and Y when it's green, eg.

[DemonOfWrath]

I'm going to raise the question of how many non-Sona players actually know and remember what her auras do? I certainly don't and I actually play a lot of support. As far as I ever remember her skills are: heal people, poke people, something I don't remember at all, and crescendo. I don't remember the passive auras at all. And the few games I play that have Sona in them I'm usually either the support against her (so can't check my bar for the effects) or playing top lane (so I'm likely not near her if she's on my team) so checking what her auras does in-game is a bit hard, if I remember at all.

Now, consider the other auras in the game are either items that everyone can buy (and thus will probably remember say what an aegis does) or are a standalone part of a champs kit (zilean and janna, also being their only auras which helps remember them). The difference between Sona and all these other examples is that her kit has three extra effects beyond the obvious actives, which makes them much harder to remember. Remembering "oh, Nasus has passive lifesteal" is easier then "Sona's Q does this and also gives this aura, her W does this and gives a different aura, ect".

[frostshotgg]

Q is +damage and AP and blue, W is +armor and MR and green, E is +ms and purple.

[IronyOwl]

That? That right there is why I don't buy any of the arguments regarding visibility. It's a set of different-colored glowing, rotating circles that are thrice as wide as her character model.

On her, yeah. But even then, it's a background effect. I figure out what aura I'm using on her by glancing at my buffbar more than looking at the screen. Maybe that's inefficient or unnecessary or something, but I'd be surprised if I'm the only one.

On the other note, the same argument could be applied to literally any other buff that isn't a shield or heal; at least Sona's auras have a visible sign of their presence in the form of their circles. I'll just list off the top of my head the number of ability-derived buffs (both self-applied and 'giftable') which have nothing but the buff icon on the toolbar (if that): Nidalee's E AS buff, Janna's passive and E AD buffs, Hecarim's passive AD buff, Poppy's passive DR and W AD/Armor buff, Akali's passive spellvamp and damage buffs, Heimerdinger's passive HP regen buff, Darius' E APen buff, Nasus' passive lifesteal, Fiora's W AD buff, Pantheon's E crit chance buff, Olaf's R passive buffs, Sejuani's passive bonus armor and slow reduction, &c. &c.

I don't think passive self-only buffs are fair to include here, because they've been skilled or they haven't; or in some cases, even just exist period or vary by level. Knowing what a Darius' current armor pen is would be handy information, but it'd have to be displayed via six different easily discernible degrees of visual style, and the payoff is similar to knowing if he's carrying a Last Whisper or not. That's not to say displaying character information visually to that degree wouldn't be a noble goal, just that in general it's probably not feasible and in that particular case it's probably not worth it.

Activated ally buffs, on the other hand, are supposed to be temporary or at least situational changes to a champion. Knowing that a Vayne's attacking a lot faster than she's normally able to is useful information; I would argue that attempting to intuitively and immediately convey that information is a noble goal. Situational self buffs are similarly important; knowing Vayne's next attack is a tumble strike is likewise handy to know right now, and lo and behold she crouches while it's active. Knowing that she's faster while chasing you is nice information, and they try, but it's just a little circle- truth be told, you're more likely to notice and remember because she's catching up to you than because she's visibly on the prowl. But in that latter case, she always works like that, so it's far more forgivable than if Nunu's Bloodboil or her Tumble were represented by nothing but a colored ring and a buff icon.

The game is literally stuffed with passive effects which boost stats, and Sona's auras are actually among the few that do have distinctive non-icon indicators that they exist. Either they didn't give more than a few moments' thought to these changes, or the whole 'clarity' heap of crap is just an excuse. I "remember" that my auras are up as much as I remember my passive boosts on any champion, and unlike most they're also fairly evident if the Sona is a teammate rather than me. The only audience I could see not noticing that they exist is composed solely of new/bad players who don't have and don't seek to develop an understanding of even the most basic aspects of any champion they don't own.

In addition to the above, I'd like to point out that clarity and legibility aren't the same things. It's entirely possible to make an effect that is theoretically possible to decipher, but that doesn't mean it's intuitive or easy. "Noticing they exist" is much like "dodging the spear," in that it's one thing to do so under controlled circumstances and another to do so easily and intuitively whenever it's important.

Also, and this point has been raised quite often elsewhere: A triggered shield is not an aura. A single on-hit damage bonus is not an aura. A brief spike in movespeed is not an aura. An aura is a sustained effect which persists, rather than something which briefly exists, triggers an effect, and vanishes. If we're going to be pedantic, it's this:

the distinctive atmosphere or quality that seems to surround and be generated by a person, thing, or place

AKA a permanent or semi-permanent quality.

Yeah, alright. But I've never considered Sona to be "the aura champ" because of the pedantic definition. I've considered her the aura champ because she's a very helpful, supporty support who assists multiple allies at once. For me, at least, running around snuggling everyone isn't going to destroy who she is, because that's still mommying everyone around you just like I want her to be doing.

I get that the particulars of that are going to be subjective, and that not everyone is going to see it that way. But I do have to wonder why passive auras especially would be so critical to the definition of who she is.

Sorry if I'm being a little overbearing here, but it really hurts to see one of my favorite champions (in terms of backstory, character, core mechanics, and playstyle) be disemboweled as part of Riot's current obsession with flashy effects over interesting mechanics. Also, we already have a support/AP caster who can give shields and speed boosts to allies while delivering decent damage and CC. She's called Karma.

I get that you're passionate about it, and I'm still cheesed off that they destroyed Soraka and Warwick's stories for stupid reasons (MEANWHILE JAX). So I certainly understand the concept, I just disagree on the particulars.

[Jack_Bread]

Plus, the auras have really tiny effects that aren't obvious at all. I don't plan on doing X when her aura is in the purple state and Y when it's green, eg.

You don't. There's a person playing Sona and they change the aura depending on the situation. Last hitting? Blue aura. Roaming between lanes? Green or purple aura. Running from or chasing enemies? Purple aura.