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[frostshotgg]

Marksmen aren't completely useless, it's just back to League of 60 minute hypercarries. Which absolutely nobody likes.

[Flying Dice]

That's the thing, Arc, this patch killed the power of pretty much all the ADCs that relied on BT/BotRK, which means that the long-range, AA-reliant ADCs like Caitlyn, Tristana, and (spirits help us) maybe even Ashe will be making a comeback. All of the bursty, mid-game powerspike, and chase-style ADCs were dumpstered.


I did try out the Essence Reaver as part of a quasi-bluebuild Ezreal earlier today, and although the sustained damage isn't great, it does make for a decent poke playstyle, and I managed to work it into some pretty good fights. Of course that match isn't the best test because the support I drew was a retarded Morgana that didn't build a gold/5 item, didn't ward, pushed lane with pool constantly, fed, and stole CS. :|

I'm also sort of wondering how well ER would complement Poppy.

On another note, Ardent Censer might mean that the age of Janna is nigh.

[Arcvasti]

That's the thing, Arc, this patch killed the power of pretty much all the ADCs that relied on BT/BotRK, which means that the long-range, AA-reliant ADCs like Caitlyn, Tristana, and (spirits help us) maybe even Ashe will be making a comeback. All of the bursty, mid-game powerspike, and chase-style ADCs were dumpstered.

Ashe definitely likes this. She rushed IE anyways. Now its meta. But Caitlyn buffs = not good and Ashe is another pet peeve of mine.  Personally, I still see ADCs like Draven, Lucian and even Quinn doing well[Although that might just be because the supports I play synergize really well with them. I'd like to see a hypercarry try to out ratio a Thresh hook to the face followed by a Quinn-Blind.{Hint: They can't}].
Time will tell, I suppose what changes are next. Actually... **Checks PBE for projected changes** Nope, nothing there about future ADC build path plans. Although we WILL be getting in-game jungle timers, which is neat.

I did try out the Essence Reaver as part of a quasi-bluebuild Ezreal earlier today, and although the sustained damage isn't great, it does make for a decent poke playstyle, and I managed to work it into some pretty good fights.

I've been waiting for some way for ADCs to build mana regen or something like that for a while. Not sure this is the best solution, but at least my friend who plays ADC won't complain about mana manipulater being gone now. Or at least, he won't have a good reason to complain. And that is good.

Of course that match isn't the best test because the support I drew was a retarded Morgana that didn't build a gold/5 item, didn't ward, pushed lane with pool constantly, fed, and stole CS. :|

Ah, League community, you never disappoint. Although that might just be because we have low expectations.

On another note, Ardent Censer might mean that the age of Janna is nigh.

I hope not. Janna is boring to play and to play against in my experience. Although [Sweet Precious]Lulu might be able to make good use of it. And I've been building it as Thresh. Not sure how I feel about it. It doesn't FEEL like it makes a difference, but it definitely helps take down towers quicker and helps in "ADC duels"[An ADC duel is when both sides are ADCs and they just sort of sit there and AA each other until one of them is dead. This is the natural state of ADCs and is why supports exist.]

EDIT: The PBE also says there's a new Caitlyn skin coming out. This latest patch makes Caitlyn really powerful. Coincidence? I THINK NOT.

[Skyrunner]

Flying Dice: Poppy already needs too many items to not be useless half the time, another 3k gold item won't do much

[frostshotgg]

Yeah, Poppy really, really can't afford to get a 3k item for laning's sake, because it has nowhere near the slot efficiency needed to be useful on full build and she needs all the gold she can get as is.

[Flying Dice]

The BotRK nerf is going to hit her hard, and this gives a marginally viable alternative that helps alleviate one of her biggest problems -- though not as much as a champ update to the modern mana/ability dynamic would. Ofc she's still going to be trash-tier/a very narrow for the foreseeable future, and this is just idle dreaming.

[Skyrunner]

Poppy isn't affected by botrk. For example, I never build that, because I prefer Triforce as a first item.

[Flying Dice]

Poppy isn't affected by botrk. For example, I never build that, because I prefer Triforce as a first item.

I, and most of the people I see playing Poppy, follow Tri with botrk, in no small part because the active on it was an excellent chase/burst tool (but obviously also because everything it gives is good for her). Not that everyone does, but botrk was probably flat out the best option; hydra didn't have near the single-target burst, and Poppy isn't really built for splitpushing. The whole point was that as Poppy you've absolutely got to be able to catch your target, hence taking Ghost and so forth; a weaker botrk active makes it somewhat more difficult both to catch and to kill. The same is true for a lot of bruisers that build it. If you can't catch anyone squishy you're worse than useless, because you're already playing a sub-par champ who excels at one thing.

[frostshotgg]

I have little to no comment on anything Poppy SHOULD be building, because if I knew the secret to becoming godmode, I'd be challenger. That said, I know for sure that Essence Reaver is an item she cannot afford to build, given how insanely valuable her slots are, and how little gold she gets as it is.

[Putnam]

So, uh, there's a lot of complaining about balance in here.

...is it usually like this? >_>

[frostshotgg]

Every few patches, roughly. Riot has a nasty habit of, every few patches, invalidating one role or another. Sometimes they rapidly backpedal, but most of the time players deal with it after a few days. This patch just happened to invalidate one of the roles, in addition to adding a couple items, one of which is basically the ultimate noob trap.

[penguinofhonor]

"Invalidating" is hyperbole.

edit: You know what, I feel like elaborating. Riot makes changes to entire classes occasionally. People expect every affected champion to be instantly buffed/nerfed to compensate, but Riot doesn't typically do this. Why not?

Look at the current situation. There are people arguing that the item changes they made were wrong and it seems like that might be the case. If they changed every ADC to compensate, they'd have to change all of them again if it turns out these changes aren't working. I don't see how you can simultaneously argue that a change is wrong and that Riot should have put a ton of work into compensating for this change.

People don't see that, though, so they always assume that Riot is either incompetent or that Riot actively hates whatever class got affected. They then get angry at this perceived incompetence/malevolence. Add that to the normal anger people have about video game balance and that's what most League of Legends discussion ends up being.

[Flying Dice]

I have little to no comment on anything Poppy SHOULD be building, because if I knew the secret to becoming godmode, I'd be challenger. That said, I know for sure that Essence Reaver is an item she cannot afford to build, given how insanely valuable her slots are, and how little gold she gets as it is.

That's a rather negative view to take on things. "Nobody who isn't in the top 0.006% of their field has a worthwhile opinion, and they shouldn't bother discussing things because they're too ignorant to understand them." That, and what else are you going to build on her? Triforce is obviously the top priority, but after that you need some sort of lifesteal, damage, and tankiness. You're just throwing your hands up in the air and saying, "Nobody could possibly understand how to do this, but I know that you're doing it wrong!"

Incidentally, every diamond/challenger level player that I've seen posting gameplays or guides for Poppy suggests going Tri into BotRK, for whatever an appeal to authority is worth.

[Putnam]

To be fair, if every average joe's idea of balance was taken into consideration, uh...

I've got no idea of which heroes are rarely-if-ever used in pro games and often used in pubs, but Dota has Rikimaru the Stealth Assassin, who has permanent invisibility as his ult and is damn easy to shut down, but he'd be nerfed to hell if the average pubber had a say even though he's not that good.

[Arcvasti]

To be fair, if every average joe's idea of balance was taken into consideration, uh...

I've got no idea of which heroes are rarely-if-ever used in pro games and often used in pubs, but Dota has Rikimaru the Stealth Assassin, who has permanent invisibility as his ult and is damn easy to shut down, but he'd be nerfed to hell if the average pubber had a say even though he's not that good.

League has Yi, Fiora and Katarina in that same position. They murder everything if you don't cc them. But lots of people don't and think they're super OP and want them nerfed/removed from the game.