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[penguinofhonor]

That's also 5 less damage on every Feral Flare autoattack compared to before.

[frostshotgg]

Jungling is standard. One on each team is pretty much all you'll see 99 out of every 100 games. Junglers are what make plays happen, given that LoL avoids some of the dota hard counters.

Meta is a term that's tossed around a lot, and nobody actually knows what it means, so it's used to mean various things. Sometimes it means the particular champions that are in favor at the time, for example right now a champ called Thresh is in vogue. Sometimes it means the particular strategy that is heavily employed, for example having a jungler take Smite(Deals a ton of damage to a minion/monster) and Teleport (TP Scroll that can go to creeps or wards as well) for their summoner spells is very common right now. Even higher in scale is general team composition strategies, a recent one was, instead of having a traditional support to forcefeed the carry farm, having a mage to force kills. Finally, when most people complain about the meta they're referring to the 2 solo lane 1 adc/support lane 1 jungler system of lanes, which is a discussion for another time.

Re: Flare. Honestly, needing the extra 5 stacks should go a decent way towards curbing it in yolo queue. Even last patch, it wasn't op in organized play, it's basically just the ultimate pubstomp item.

[Flying Dice]

Still you and Flying Dice seem to be the exception as everyone is going Feral Flare Xin.

Eh? When did I ever say that? All of my arguments have been that Flare is really, really good on AA-reliant junglers. I love the bloody thing.

Again, I'm with frostshot on this one. The high-damage junglers that are in-meta right now are by and large frequent gankers, who get very little benefit from FF (compared to EL). If you build towards FF and then spend all your time ganking, you're massively suboptimal because the gold bonus rewards farming, not occasionally popping big monsters, as well as because of the lack of EL's passive. If you build FF on a champ who needs to make an early impact and then spend all/most of your time farming, you're massively suboptimal. :/

Granted I'm inferring more from your agreement with frostshot rather then you explicitly saying but to think that building Mandred's/Wriggles on Xin means the Xin won't be ganking is silly. To think that Elder Lizard would do more damage you also have to realise that Elder Lizard is more expensive and other then mana/health sustain in jungle the Spirit Stone is actually useless in ganks unlike Mandred's which can help with sustain in jungle as well as the slight AS bonus when ganking.

The argument I was making there is that the high-impact early game junglers would probably do better with EL because it's more useful for ganking (barring certain AA-heavy junglers) and takes less time to complete than FF when you account for the time it takes to get 25 stacks. Granted, I was guesstimating somewhat in regards to the time it takes to hit 25, but I don't think it was entirely unfounded. However, the point I was getting at is that I never brought up AA-heavy junglers, I was talking about jungling solely in terms of the strong early-mid vs. strong late breakdown.

Also notice that in that exact same post I mentioned that FF looked really good for junglers who want attack speed. My next post on the subject said much the same thing, from a slightly different path of approach.

[Putnam]

Jungling is standard. One on each team is pretty much all you'll see 99 out of every 100 games. Junglers are what make plays happen, given that LoL avoids some of the dota hard counters.

...Dota hard counters?

I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to there and I play Dota and this isn't really related to the discussion here...

[frostshotgg]

My understanding (I don't play dota at a very high level at all) is that in dota, there are lanes that hard counter other lanes. There are very, very, very few instances in League where you can completely shut down an enemy laner. The jungler is to cause and prevent those instances.

[Putnam]

By "lanes" do you mean "laners"?

Generally, you can just ask mid to come gank if you're being shut down that hard. Hell, I just played a game where me and my lane partner were getting shut down  top (despite by best efforts to help him farm) but we still won in the end simply because one of the people from bot started ganking. By the sound of it, they seem to have put ganker and jungler into a single role in LoL, which is interesting.

Also interesting: the most jungly jungler I'm aware of, Nature's Prophet, is also a great ganker due to his teleport, which allows him to teleport anywhere on the map with a 50/40/30/20 cooldown, so there is some overlap. It's his Q, IIRC.

[Flying Dice]

Yes, by and large the jungler is the primary ganker. That said, there are a lot of midlaners who will start roaming and ganking once they hit their powerspike/if they manage to get a lead in their lane--a good chunk of 'standard' midlaners are burst casters with high single-target damage. It's also not uncommon for toplaners to run teleport (or, in Shen's case, hit level 6), which gives them the potential to countergank or take advantage of enemy overextension while staying in top lane.

[IronyOwl]

By "lanes" do you mean "laners"?

Yes, but the contents of a lane tend to be reasonably predictable and static in LoL. Lane swaps aren't common and the same general classes or at least pools of champions tend to appear in each spot, so it's common to refer to people by their lane.

Generally, you can just ask mid to come gank if you're being shut down that hard. Hell, I just played a game where me and my lane partner were getting shut down  top (despite by best efforts to help him farm) but we still won in the end simply because one of the people from bot started ganking. By the sound of it, they seem to have put ganker and jungler into a single role in LoL, which is interesting.

Was this in Dota or LoL?

In any case, it's possible, but has some downsides. There's the travel time, the fact that the enemy laner is likely to notice you leaving and follow or otherwise punish you for it, the innate losses in your lane even if your enemy doesn't especially capitalize on it, and the simple fact that you might not be very well suited for the task. Junglers have shades of all these issues, but since they're selected explicitly for the last one, not typically in competition with their opponent in the same fashion as traditional laners, and roaming and built to roam a good deal anyway, they tend to be better suited for it.

Plus, of course, the simple fact that you get more teamwide experience, gold, and buff/objective control by having a jungler.

All that said, "roaming" is the general term when a laner goes elsewhere to gank someone. It's not especially common, but it's not exactly uncommon.

[Putnam]

That was Dota. Roaming isn't altogether uncommon there. Also, TP scrolls are easy to get as side-lane shops (which I understand LoL doesn't have).

[Flying Dice]

Yes. I'm also given to understand that one major difference is the magnitude of backing, because LoL also doesn't have the item-ferry upgrade that lets you buy while staying in lane, so it's pretty typical after a kill for a laner to shove the minions into the enemy tower and recall to buy.

[Skyrunner]

BRAUM LOOKS SO AWESOME

Also, looks like Riot took a leaf out of Dota 2's book and added a few voiceovers for buying items like Sunfire Cape or Randuin's Omen.

[Flying Dice]

BRAUM LOOKS SO AWESOME

Also, looks like Riot took a leaf out of Dota 2's book and added a few voiceovers for buying items like Sunfire Cape or Randuin's Omen.

Ooh, that sounds neat~

[Frumple]

BRAUM LOOKS SO AWESOME

sweet mother of zeus that beautiful mustache

braum should come with the introduction of mustache mode, which does absolutely nothing but paste his mustache on all other champions

[frostshotgg]

If you guys didn't watch it, which your surprise at Braum seems to indicate, watch the Trials of the Poro.

[Putnam]

So, uh, how do you guys play without voice chat or pausing? >_>

Do people just have to deal if their game crashes?

And what about replays? No looking back on games to see what went wrong?

Also my brother was complaining about Dota's camera not locking to the hero when I had him play it recently. Is... that what happens in LoL?

(Speaking of which, this is his computer and I just noticed it's here, but I don't like getting into games like this without about 5 hours of research, hehe)