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[Sharp]

Pretty much every game I have seen from plat-challenger where there is a jungler who primarily deals damage to enemy champs with auto-attacks (i.e not Lee-Sin or Kha'Zix) they buy Feral Flare.

I have seen 3 ranked challenger games and all of them had a feral flare jungler and the FF jungler only lost once vs an enemy Lee Sin who built Elder Lizard and dominated the Xin he was against.

Regardless of it's effectiveness I would say Feral Flare is indeed the new meta for AA Junglers, I have yet to see a game with a jungle Xin/Udyr/Trynd where they don't build Feral Flare and half the Vi's I have seen are building Feral Flare as well.

Also Feral Flare is so much fun on Vi, the camp clear times are much quicker then Elder Lizard with the AS buff and the lower damage from abilities is made up by proc'ing more denting blows and helps from the nerf on Vi's Q.

I still feel some people are underestimating the power from Mandred's/Wriggles as it's not stopping me from ganking at all, doing a successful gank also let's me counter-jungle to get even more camps.

[penguinofhonor]

Hey, Feral Flare plays perfectly into Shyvana's strengths. I know who I'm playing today.

[Flying Dice]

I still feel some people are underestimating the power from Mandred's/Wriggles as it's not stopping me from ganking at all, doing a successful gank also let's me counter-jungle to get even more camps.

I do agree on this point, albeit from a slightly different perspective: Wriggles line makes it much easier to counterjungle even if smite is on CD, and which one you build isn't going to have a terrible impact on very early ganks (aka first buffs), and if you do well with those it doesn't matter overmuch as long as you have a gapcloser or sticking tool in your kit.

Spoiler: Oh, and Yi isn't viable at all. (click to show/hide)

To be fair it wasn't a tough game to begin with, and Blitz ragingquitting didn't help things. :|

That's the first match I managed to get to full build since the FF was added, and I can pretty definitively say that there is no question in my mind of ever going back to lifesteal for AS junglers unless it's nerfed into the ground. With ult or Youmuu's active running and that build, I was healing around 230 health per second just from FF's passive by the end of the match.

[Putnam]

Wow, the icons are so small.

Also, what're those things between KDA and items?

[Arcvasti]

Wow, the icons are so small.

Also, what're those things between KDA and items?

I think those are summoner spells.

[Putnam]

Okay, so I started getting interested in League from reading this topic, but then I looked that up and now I'm not interested anymore...

And thus does the regret from posting here begin anew.

[Frumple]

... free game is free. Give it a try and see?

[Putnam]

Sorry, not interested in a game of this type that withholds features that show up in-play until you've played long enough. Giving players who have played longer an inherent advantage that isn't simply one of skill is not something that I can abide by, especially when it's obvious what the intended purpose is (keep people playing longer so they'll buy more stuff, which shouldn't be necessary for this type of game which is clearly going to be a time investment regardless of any "summoner spells" or "masteries" made to artificially inflate playtime).

In fact, I think summoner spells are a good idea. Giving players abilities that go across heroes that can be chosen from a pool is interesting, but not when some of those gameplay-affecting abilities are withheld until more games are played.

Masteries are stupid.

This is what I get for not looking something up before becoming somewhat interested :I

[Flying Dice]

That's... a rather severe misjudgement of things, for several reasons.

1. Normals matchmaking includes matching based on levels. You aren't being thrown into games with level 30s, you're paired with people with the same amount of stuff unlocked as you.

2. It takes maybe one or two weeks at most to hit level 30, maybe three if you hardly ever play. The whole point of it being set up the way it is is that you'll hit level 30 pretty quickly, but you'll still have had a chance to get accustomed to the way the different parts of the game work, as well as forming a good idea of which champions and what runes you want to unlock. Instead of dumping you in blind, you're pitted against other new players (and smurfs), so that you have some time to work on your skills and build up IP. I literally didn't spent IP on anything until I hit level 20, and I never felt like I was at a disadvantage.

It's like... complaining about pre-30 in League is like complaining about playing a tutorial and a couple campaign missions in an RTS instead of jumping straight into online multiplayer, not like playing a PvP MMO on a level 1 toon against levelcapped clans. It's a chance to learn a lot of the ins and outs of things before you jump into ranked play.

3. Oh, and you unlock Flash at level 12, and it's the last summoner spell. I think I reached level 12 in two or three days of play. Other than that, masteries are sort of meh anyways, and level 3 runes are available at level 20. To be fair, I do think that the price on rune pages is a tad much at 6300IP, but you start with two and don't really need more than four or five unless you're going to be playing professionally. Runes themselves are also very nicely done, and unintuitive in a good way: you only have to buy them once; they're more like slot options than actual tokens. Buy 9 AD reds? You can put 9 AD reds on every single runepage you have.

[Arcvasti]

Honestly, I have no problem with masteries and such. They allow minor customization for more advanced players, without providing enough benefits to unbalance gameplay. I can understand not wanting to play League based on its HORRIBLE community[Not anyone here on Bay12, you're mostly cool, more like normal trolls and flamers] or slightly wonky champion balance, but the complaints you've raised don't seem like much of an issue. Masteries provide horribly low-power benefits[%2-3 extra damage, 7 AP, 4-5% extra attack speed], and, as Mr. Flying Dice here said, you'll be up against people with around the same amount of Mastery Point thingies as you, so there's not much of a difference there. As far as summoner spells, its only about 10-20 games to get to a high enough level to unlock all of them. And once again, you'll be playing against people with the same tier of spells as you, most of the time. Its your decision, and there are most DEFINITELY reasons not to play this game, but it doesn't seem like your objections are particularly problematic. My 5 cents.

[Putnam]

It's more that I'm completely against the idea of "metagame" being anything other than consensus of players about what's viable and isn't, rather than anything involving actual out-of-game experience affecting in-game stuffs.

By the way you're describing the reasoning, it seems more like hand-holding, which sure makes Riot at odds with what I know their community to be like (I play enough Dota to be called "cyka" twice a week at least, mind, and I got threatened with a report today for jungling, no exaggeration, so I doubt League to be much different, especially with the research I've done suggesting that heroes are way more intended to be in set roles like "AP carry mid" or w/e here).

EDIT: Not to say that being at odds is bad, just that it'd be better for them to do it with more meta ways, like a report system (which I'm sure they have anyway). Dota has a friggin annoying tutorial from what I've heard recently, but then they throw you directly into all pick from there and don't even have the courtesy to say "maining a hero is stupid, don't do it".

[Frumple]

Maybe. Just. Wild suggestion, yes. Actually try it? Is thought. Game is free. You might find actually playing it is different than... whatever assumptions you're making now. Won't know until you actually try. Is fun enough even if you don't bother with all that fiddly junk. Seriously. Just... give the thing a go.

In practice, I haven't even noticed, well, anything you're mentioning. And I'm not even level 30 yet, despite having an account and playing (very) intermittently for a couple years now. Mind you, I'm not someone that would play DotA long enough or hard enough to to get called... cyka, whatever that means, or give enough of a damn about what my team was saying to not mute each and every one of them, so maybe I'm just not noticing it. Probably not. Whatev', really. Game is free! Giving try won't hurt.

[Skyrunner]

After the first few matches, unless you are really really good (=smurf), you will face people who have the same nunber of spells and masteries as you.

[DemonOfWrath]

People generally won't have a problem in LoL with playing champs out of their usual role, long as you explain what your doing beforehand (the joy of playing supports elsewhere and someone just looking at your champ and not where you said you're going...) unless it's a really, really, really dumb idea. That being said, if the game goes badly a lot of people who were initially cool with that stuff will often suddenly turn into arses and berate you for your pick ignoring whatever circumstances happened in-game.

[Flying Dice]

Yeah, it's pretty much as Frumple says. We're all telling you that your preconception isn't accurate, the game is free. You can try it or not at your leisure.

For what it's worth, I don't see a tremendous amount of toxicity in LoL, either in absolute terms or in relation to specific issues, and certainly far less than the reputation it gets; maybe one asshole per ten matches, and they're usually just looking for things that they can use to blame other people for their own failings. Also, one-click muting via the scoreboard. But from what I've seen, people are by-and-large chill with whatever, as long as you don't completely fuck up everything and feed constantly. And with the team-builder queue, the entire team can see the exact combination of champion, build, and position you're planning on using.