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Author Topic: League of Legends - Patch 7.22 - Runes Reforged  (Read 1287983 times)

IronyOwl

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 3.11 - Lucian, the Purifier
« Reply #12015 on: September 15, 2013, 04:31:24 pm »

All right, I give up. Fine, it's perfectly all right to cost other people rank because you want to know just how badly you suck. That thought process is exactly why anybody believes elo hell exists, and is part of the problem with the elo system entirely. In order to find out just how bad you are, you must drag others down with you.
Are you blaming the system or the people who partake in it? I'd think it'd have to be the system, since 400 wins (~800 games) just to not cost other people rank (which they'll earn back in short order anyway) is patently ridiculous.

So, what would you recommend instead?

And I'm pretty sure the people complaining about "trolls leavers afkers or feeders in 80% of my games" are not just getting constantly inundated with (but not against, remember!) players the system has overestimated. I'm pretty sure they're seeing negativity everywhere, taking things too seriously, and grossly overestimating themselves.
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frostshotgg

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 3.11 - Lucian, the Purifier
« Reply #12016 on: September 15, 2013, 04:37:17 pm »

I blaming the system, but not suggesting a replacement because nobody's thought of one yet and I'm certainly not likely to come up with one. With it as it is, the only winning move is not to play, until you're reasonably sure you're at silver, which is where placement games start.
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penguinofhonor

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 3.11 - Lucian, the Purifier
« Reply #12017 on: September 15, 2013, 04:51:40 pm »

Well I think it's terrible to start playing ranked if you're better than silver. If you're carrying and winning your games, you're unjustly costing your silver-rank opponents elo and unjustly giving it to your bronze-rank allies.
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engy

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 3.11 - Lucian, the Purifier
« Reply #12018 on: September 15, 2013, 05:20:07 pm »

Well I think it's terrible to start playing ranked if you're better than silver. If you're carrying and winning your games, you're unjustly costing your silver-rank opponents elo and unjustly giving it to your bronze-rank allies.

This isn't how the elo system works at all.

And your MMR/ELO is hidden now so it isn't as clear as it used to be; LP sorta tells you; but it can be super far off.  This is why you'll play games and get 50+ LP or after you win a promo game you'll go up 2 divisions; its trying to balance you with where you should be.  The same thing happens if you lose a ton of games in a row; its like well... we better drop him down so he plays with people his level.

Theres also a MMR/ELO system for normal games; its always been hidden but it does the same thing.  This is were those unskilled player reports go; they lower your normal game MMR/ELO so you can play with people closer to your skill level.

Anyway; back to ranked.  If your an amazing diamond level player or whatever and you start playing; you'll be in placements with people near your MMR/ELO/Skill level from normal games on the way to ranked. Best example of this: People in gold leagues complaining about people in placement matches 'costing them' LP.

Playing ranked games isn't going to hurt anyone; unless you are intentionally throwing games out the window.  It doesn't matter how much anyone rocks/sucks you'll be playing with people who are about your level.  It may take a lot of games to get you into the right place; but eventually you'll get there.

Also, the season is ending so if you've been scared or afraid to play some ranked games - don't.  Get out there and get placed. You'll walk away with something even if your bronze 5.  And even if you lose all of them; there will be a soft ELO/MMR reset; you'll start afresh for that new season and make huge gains/losses. 
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frostshotgg

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 3.11 - Lucian, the Purifier
« Reply #12019 on: September 15, 2013, 05:27:01 pm »

Riot's said multiple times that normal game mmr has no impact on ranked mmr. You can be (in an extreme example) bronze ranked but gold mmr, I've seen it happen.
Well I think it's terrible to start playing ranked if you're better than silver. If you're carrying and winning your games, you're unjustly costing your silver-rank opponents elo and unjustly giving it to your bronze-rank allies.
Great strawman. It's not the same, because you can't go into your first placement match sure that you can carry, no matter how good. You might just happen to get matched against trick2g's latest smurf. If you know you suck though, you can go in almost certain that you will cause your team to lose.
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webadict

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 3.11 - Lucian, the Purifier
« Reply #12020 on: September 15, 2013, 06:06:51 pm »

All right, I give up. Fine, it's perfectly all right to cost other people rank because you want to know just how badly you suck. That thought process is exactly why anybody believes elo hell exists, and is part of the problem with the elo system entirely. In order to find out just how bad you are, you must drag others down with you.
This makes no sense. The only flaw with the system is that it can't approximate your Elo BEFORE you play any games. In fact, YOUR reasoning is the exactly why people think Elo Hell exists. You're blaming low Elo players for ruining games (but not the opponents' games). This means that it is the TEAMMATE'S FAULT that their team lost. They aren't blaming their failings for their loss. Like it or not, you can carry a game most of the time. And if you carry most of the time, let's say, 60% of the time, then you will gain rank. So, it doesn't matter if you're matched up with players that are bad because you will also be matched AGAINST players that are bad.

Please note that this is something a LOT of Bronze players think, and it's the reason why a lot of them stay in Bronze. Anybody reading what frostshotgg is saying should learn that this is the OPPOSITE of what a player should be thinking in ranked. Ranked is for learning. Normals can also be for learning, but ranked is where you go to test your skills against other players that are also trying to test their skills. If you are blaming your loss on your teammates, no matter how bad they are, then you won't do any better. This isn't to say all games are winnable, only that most games are winnable. I think at least 80% of games are winnable, but only if you're skilled enough to win them.

Riot's said multiple times that normal game mmr has no impact on ranked mmr. You can be (in an extreme example) bronze ranked but gold mmr, I've seen it happen.
Well I think it's terrible to start playing ranked if you're better than silver. If you're carrying and winning your games, you're unjustly costing your silver-rank opponents elo and unjustly giving it to your bronze-rank allies.
Great strawman. It's not the same, because you can't go into your first placement match sure that you can carry, no matter how good. You might just happen to get matched against trick2g's latest smurf. If you know you suck though, you can go in almost certain that you will cause your team to lose.
Engy is right, just so you know. Your normal Elo has an effect on your INITIAL opponents, since it is a good indicator of your ranked Elo. It takes into account your previous season Elos and your normal Elo.

You don't have to win every single game. You just have to win a majority. This is like... basic probability. That's why the Elo system works. It's to be assumed that after 100s of games, you will be at your Elo. If you're not, then you either have the worst luck or, the more than likely situation, you suck. But, you never affected your previous teammates'/opponents' Elos by playing. Sure, you might have temporarily adjusted them, but you have no affect on their permanent Elo.

So, play ranked. It's about finding your ranking.
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penguinofhonor

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 3.11 - Lucian, the Purifier
« Reply #12021 on: September 15, 2013, 06:56:35 pm »

Well I think it's terrible to start playing ranked if you're better than silver. If you're carrying and winning your games, you're unjustly costing your silver-rank opponents elo and unjustly giving it to your bronze-rank allies.

Great strawman. It's not the same, because you can't go into your first placement match sure that you can carry, no matter how good. You might just happen to get matched against trick2g's latest smurf. If you know you suck though, you can go in almost certain that you will cause your team to lose.

Yeah, and if you're bad then you might just happen to get matched against a team that has two terrible players instead of the one your team has (you). Or you could get matched with trick2g's latest smurf. Any unlucky situation that's going to give a good player a loss could give a win to a bad player on the other team.

Anyway, what does it matter if the win or loss is 100% guaranteed? I feel like you're dodging the point. If there's a bronze team with a 25% chance to win against a team of silvers, then a plat guy jumps on and brings their chances up to 60%, he's still skewing the system and therefore shouldn't play.
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webadict

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 3.11 - Lucian, the Purifier
« Reply #12022 on: September 16, 2013, 07:50:37 pm »

So, worlds is happening this week! Hurray! There were some excellent games played last Night! I suggest watching all of them, but if you can't, I suggest you watch SK Telecom T1 vs OMG. That was a very well played game from both sides. And every team is playing incredibly well. It really is world class plays right now. I'm actually a little sad C9 isn't playing right now, since it'd be nice to see them play against these teams.

I'll also advertise for rather well done recaps of all the games here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5Y8BgS9nSU&list=UUQftNel-XqUOnP45YGtOBzQ

Also, try not to spoil the games for anyone!
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webadict

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 3.11 - Lucian, the Purifier
« Reply #12023 on: September 16, 2013, 09:03:13 pm »

Groups for Worlds is playing right now!

http://na.lolesports.com if you need a link.
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baruk

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 3.11 - Lucian, the Purifier
« Reply #12024 on: September 16, 2013, 09:21:55 pm »

Quick predictions:
MSK vs SSO
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
VUL vs GMB   
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
SSO vs FNC   
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
MSK vs VUL   
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
FNC vs GMB     
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

webadict

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 3.11 - Lucian, the Purifier
« Reply #12025 on: September 16, 2013, 09:34:39 pm »

Quick predictions:
MSK vs SSO
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
VUL vs GMB   
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
SSO vs FNC   
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
MSK vs VUL   
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
FNC vs GMB     
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Psh, I've got this:

MSK vs SSO
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
VUL vs GMB   
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
SSO vs FNC   
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
MSK vs VUL   
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
FNC vs GMB
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Why? EDIT: To make it for each game.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 09:54:04 pm by webadict »
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baruk

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 3.11 - Lucian, the Purifier
« Reply #12026 on: September 17, 2013, 12:09:20 am »

impressive game (FNC vs SSO)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

edit: MSK vs VUL was very close/entertaining.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 01:41:00 am by baruk »
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IronyOwl

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 3.11 - Lucian, the Purifier
« Reply #12027 on: September 17, 2013, 02:19:51 am »

edit: MSK vs VUL was very close/entertaining.
Yeah.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Loved Fanatic vs Gambit more though, I think.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

baruk

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 3.11 - Lucian, the Purifier
« Reply #12028 on: September 17, 2013, 02:26:40 am »

Loved Fanatic vs Gambit more though, I think.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In terms of picks, it seemed like old vs. new.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 02:29:26 am by baruk »
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webadict

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 3.11 - Lucian, the Purifier
« Reply #12029 on: September 17, 2013, 09:10:10 am »

Loved Fanatic vs Gambit more though, I think.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In terms of picks, it seemed like old vs. new.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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